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Do we REALLY care ?

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by Bijou, Oct 26, 2012.


  1. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    I did not comment on the other thread as by the time I had read through the whole thing it had got way too personal for my taste but one phrase resonated with me ...some one wrote in regard to unethical breeding ......


    sadly the complete opposite is true - the ONLY way of stopping the endless misery of BYB's and puppy farming is to 'stop the demand'...no high faluting recommendations by the Dog Advisory Council , no government legislation or education programmes in schools, no endless reams of 'advice' or well meaning posts on forums such as this are going to make one iota of difference if folk carry on buying irresponsibly ...ultimately the buck stops with YOU.

    your puppy will be part of your family for many more years than your sofa, annual holiday or car - in my opinion he/she deserves at least as much consideration over their purchase and it is surely worth waiting for the right pup after doing as much research as possible and paying that bit extra to ensure that all possible health tests are done ?

    ...as a breeder I bend over backwards to 'tick all the boxes' but.I do wonder if as a society we truly care or is this all just so much lip service - the rhetoric sounds good but when push comes to shove we leave doing it 'right' for others because actually.... we want it cut price and we want it NOW ...oh and that pup is just SOOOO cute :rolleyes:

    If this is a true reflection of what the majority of puppy buyers want then is'nt it about time we stopped the hypocrisy and just came out and said it ?

    No more pretending to give a flying ferret about ending puppy farming or the misery of poorly bred pups...just let them get on with it because after all it seems to be meeting a demand

    .but ..if we DO care then by heck we've got to step up to the plate and PERSONALLY ensure that the dogs we buy come from the best breeders we can find - even if that means waiting longer and paying more


    So I'm interested ..and be honest ....does any of this really matter to you ?
     
    #1 Bijou, Oct 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
    Pointermum, Colette, Goblin and 3 others like this.
  2. SLB

    SLB PetForums VIP

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    Until I joined dogs forums - I had no idea about health checks and would never had thought about asking.

    I don't think it's a case of if we care or not - it's do people know enough?
     
  3. emmaviolet

    emmaviolet PetForums VIP

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    I think it matters to a great deal.

    I believe others tow the line and say the right thing but have no care really as long as it results in a cute puppy.

    Harsh but there are at least three pups being talked about on dog chat today who are clearly puppy farmed or byb bought. The info is all over this forum yet established members ignore all of it.

    There will be no end to it, sad to say.
     
  4. Phoolf

    Phoolf PetForums VIP

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    I think that depends on your personal beliefs and standards to be honest. I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone who wanted to buy from a puppy farm when armed with all the correct information about what goes on, but I think lots of people are comfortable buying from BYB, accidental litters and so on.

    Some people have higher standards they like to adher to regarding health checks, generation papers, breeding lines etc etc but that's not of high importance to a lot of pet dog owners, I know it isn't to me. I don't want a pedigree dog, I don't require a dog with every health test known to man and I'm not fussed if I don't get any papers with their family tree. I'd happily go for rescue dogs of interdeterminate breed for the forseeable future, I don't want anything fancy, I want a nice dog that has fun and keeps me company, I think that's what the majority of dog owners want too.
     
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  5. WeedySeaDragon

    WeedySeaDragon PetForums VIP

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    I absolutely agree with you that it really is as simple as supply and demand. If there's no demand for poorly bred puppies from unregistered and non-health tested parents then puppy farmers and BYBs will stop churning them out.

    I don't think it always comes down to people not caring though. There are some people who, even armed with all the right knowledge, still put their own desires above the welfare of the dogs but I think in many cases it's simply ignorance or naivety.

    I think a lot of genuinely nice people presume that it would never be allowed for puppy farms to exist or for people to be able to so easily breed dogs that are genetic wrecks.

    A lot of people don't do research simply because they don't think they need to. That a dog is just a dog and there's no reason not to just buy the first one they see in the free-ads.

    It is a case of educating people about puppy farms, the ethics of breeding, how breeds differ, hereditary illnesses and everything else that is important when considering getting a puppy.

    Unfortunately I think there will always be people who want their puppy right now and for whom these concerns are just outweighed by their desire to get a puppy as soon as possible :(
     
  6. Nagini

    Nagini Guest

    if people can care enough to switch on their computers and search endless ads on the internet then surely they can care enough to put the research in , it's not hard is it. more like can they be bothered ?
     
  7. DoodlesRule

    DoodlesRule PetForums VIP

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    I think most do care a great deal, its just one persons ethics and experiences may differ from another - one persons BYB is some one elses caring hobby breeder. I can't think of anyone who would knowingly support a puppy farmer but many would support caring, responsibly bred, home reared pups but if you don't believe dogs should be bred unless its to either show or work the two sides will never meet on middle ground.
     
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  8. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Personally I think its a mixture, some people probably dont know enough.
    Some people like every thing else must have and as soon as posible, they make their minds up and thats it and go for the most available at the time and wont wait for a pup. Some people even if you try to educate them so they make the right choice just dont listen and your wasting your breath.
    I know Ive spent ages with various people who have asked about my breeds and then just gone and done the opposite anyway, often a fail at the end of it. Those I would say probably come under the dont cares I just want.
     
  9. Phoolf

    Phoolf PetForums VIP

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    Or...do they feel it's blown out of proportion? If you've never met a dog with massively detrimental genetic illnesses, everyone you know has brought dogs from wherever who have always had great temperaments and lived to a grand old age, do you think you'd take this all seriously? I know all about health testing now after reading up on here, but every other day of my life previous to this has not led me to think about that for a second. Every dog I've known up to now has been fine and dandy regardless of pedigree status, socialisation, health tests or whatever. I think a lot of people feel that it's overthinking it.
     
  10. emmaviolet

    emmaviolet PetForums VIP

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    Plus you get those who already know enough, what about them?!!!
     
  11. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    I care greatly, and it never ceases to amaze me that people will knowingly support breeders out of sheer laziness, because ignorance can't be an excuse if people tell you that there is more to buying a puppy than the vet telling a breeder they have a healthy dog so it's ok to breed, or it was an ooops litter, or it didn't seem to produce a problem last time round, etc, etc.

    I bite my tongue a lot of the time on here and other online forums, but the older and more cantankerous I get, the less I feel like it.
     
  12. Alice Childress

    Alice Childress PetForums VIP

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    I think Bijou is asking about the people who DO know enough and yet still buy pups from byb when push comes to shove.

    In answer to Bijou, yes it really matters to me. It matters an awful lot. Hence, why when I see educated people who have all the information, say all the right things, but when it comes to it just want a cheap puppy now, it really distresses me. I would respect people who do that more if they just put their hands up and said "actually yeah, I don't care, getting the pup I want now is more important to me". I find the pious attitude very difficult to cope with though.
     
  13. Milliepoochie

    Milliepoochie PetForums VIP

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    What is worrying though is that I feel like PF recently has shown that even those in the know are prepared to buy a puppy for the 'right' price from where is covinient at the time :mad: Ignorance canbe blamed the first time but not the second.

    I have been quite shocked reading some threads - I know that if someone came on with 0 posts as a new user they would have been ripped to pieces and advised point blank to not support an unethical breeder.

    Its not even a pro X Breed against X Breeds argument - I have the most wonderful beautiful X Breed I could ever imagine but the idiot who bred her must of been a complete P**T! 10 Months old - never had a collar on and home number 3 at least and being passed on as a 100% legit different breed :mad:

    Who is to say that X amount of these byb crossbreeds dont also end up like my Mille did because they were bought on a whim and available at the right time at the right price? Will 99% of these breeders take them back? I think not.


    I am never going to spends £100's on a dog -My Choice -Doesnt mean I would buy from a BYB - Thats why when the time comes for another I will be going via a breed rescue I hope to find a specific dog to join our family.

    I realise that these dogs need a home but if poeple continue to buy them then they will continue to breed them. Supply and Demand.

    And yes of course I love my Millie but theres lots of Millies out there who arnt as lucky as my Millie.

    DO I want to see more pups like Millie - NO

    I find it sad - nothing less. I wont waste any more energy on the topic. It appears I have differing views from some and im not on this forum to argue. Lifes to short.
     
    #13 Milliepoochie, Oct 26, 2012
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
    Pointermum and emmaviolet like this.
  14. Nagini

    Nagini Guest

    have no idea as to regards how other people think , maybe they do , maybe they don't to be honest , the breeding , selling and buying of a dog is all too easy to be honest , it's a bit like doing your online shopping now isn't it?:(
     
  15. Phoolf

    Phoolf PetForums VIP

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    I agree with that. I don't think animals should be traded like an inatimate item, I don't think they should be sold on the internet to strangers nor do I think it should be done without a license, but I don't see any way around it sadly.
     
  16. L/C

    L/C PetForums VIP

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    But it's not just about health tests at all. A non health tested dog can be just as healthy as a health tested one or healthier. It's also about where those puppies and the next ones and the next ones will end up. With byb the chance of multiple litters going through rescue at some point in their lives (quite often when they are difficult adolescents) is much, much higher then an ethical breeder.

    I don't care if someone is breeding x-breeds, pedigrees, mongrels or whatever if they are making sure that those pups go to appropriate homes and are willing to take them back if the owner can't manage. However the vast majority do not do that - hence the number of dogs in rescue. The system is in crisis and by supporting breeders that do not do all of these things and who will breed when they need some spare cash then you are contributing. Even if the pup that you buy from them never gets any nearer to a rescue then a fundraiser.
     
  17. emmaviolet

    emmaviolet PetForums VIP

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    I've been thinking this through today as clearly the op has and I know many of you have too!

    I was thinking that if even the long standing members on here who know better but don't do better go to these places we may as well get rid of all the sticky's for finding a puppy and exposing puppy farms etc as it seems when it comes down to it, they are all as much use as a hole in the head!:(
     
  18. Megan345

    Megan345 PetForums VIP

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    This exactly applies to me. Before joining this forum, I knew that, in theory, health tests existed, but didn't realise they were quite as important. Not everyone will search the Internet for information about what they should look for in a puppy, or where they should get them from. I didn't, and got a dog from a well known website for selling stuff. This wasn't because I decided, 'Oh, sod it, she's only 50 quid so that's good enough for me,' but because that's what my parents and everyone I know who's ever bought a dog has done (or newspaper ads), so it just didn't occur to me that there was anything wrong with it. She wasn't a puppy from a byb, but she almost definitely was once, and we could just as easily have decided to get a puppy.

    Education is the key - and it needs to be in places where people who won't look for the information will see it. They need reasons and consequences if this is going to change. Now, I will get a dog from a good breeder or a rescue when we get our next one, because I'm aware of the reasons behind it. It isn't all people wanting exactly what they want right now for next to no money, although I certainly won't defend those who do think in that way.
     
  19. Sarah1983

    Sarah1983 PetForums VIP

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    Sadly I think yes, this is what most puppy buyers want. Your average dog owner anyway. They don't want to wait months or even years for a puppy, they want it ASAP and they don't want to pay a hell of a lot for it. Most aren't interested in health tests, they just want a pet, not a show dog (their words, not mine) so don't feel things like that matter.
     
  20. Wiz201

    Wiz201 PetForums VIP

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    I've just finished a book called Wills and Cowboy, the moral of that story is don't buy from pet stores as you don't know where the puppy comes from. Lovely story, don't get me wrong, but it made me cry:cryin:
     
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