Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

DIY Frontline flea killer

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by David Davidson, Jun 25, 2019.


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. David Davidson

    David Davidson PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    So, my cat usually gets fleas in the summer and it often takes more than one treatment of frontline to get rid of them completely.
    Problem is frontline is fairly expensive considering that it's simply fipronil, a widely used insecticide.
    So I've been considering making my own using their formulation or something similar, though I would need a full list of ingredients (the inert ingredients) and then I can just order in some Fipronil powder from China (it sells at about $50/kg, which would be a lifetime supply considering one dose of Frontline spot on for cats is 50mg of fipronil) the only issue is finding out if the inert ingredients contain anything special (like DMSO; which allows larger molecules to be absorbed through the skin) so if anyone has a frontline spot on for cats insert with a full ingredient list, or knows where I can find a full list of ingredients that would be great.

    I know it sounds a bit sketchy to be making a veterinary treatment for your pet by yourself, though fipronil is extremely safe and well tolerated in cats and I have scales which can measure down to 1mg with an error margin of +/- 5mg so with a kilo of the stuff I would likely make a batch of 10 doses at a time reducing the margin of error down to +/- 0.5mg, which is well within acceptable levels.
     
  2. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    17,356
    Sorry but I think this is unecessarily endangering your cat. You have no idea of the quality controls on the fipronil bought out of China, I wouldn't risk it myself.
    If you start treating for fleas in the spring and keep it up until a good frost, you should be fine.

    ETA: Might be worth seeing why your cats get fleas so often? I have inside/outside cats who I only treat if I see flea dirt. In the last 10 years I think they've had fleas maybe 3 times?
     
    sandy-cat, Forester, Soozi and 3 others like this.
  3. Sacremist

    Sacremist Mum to 2 cats and a dog

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    5,083
    You do know vets stopped prescribing Frontline years ago because it’s no longer effective against fleas! It only kills about 98% of them with the remaining 2% having developed resistance to the ingredients in Frontline.
     
    #3 Sacremist, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
    BoosServant likes this.
  4. Sacremist

    Sacremist Mum to 2 cats and a dog

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    5,083
    Plus you haven’t mentioned what you are using to treat your home. You have to treat both cat and home to get rid of fleas.
     
    sandy-cat likes this.
  5. jjimjam

    jjimjam PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    25
    You crazy dude! I do admire your spirit, but personally, there's no way I would do any of that. You are considering buying biochem ingredients from another country, mixing them up, and testing them on your loved ones!

    However much do you spend on frontline? In UK, I buy Advantage, prescription free, for £2.50/dose. Recommended dosage is once per month, but I do stretch that out. I'm frugal, but can handle the cost. You sound like you may not be in the UK, so perhaps things are different for you.
     
  6. Soozi

    Soozi PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    16,297
    Likes Received:
    22,071
    Fipronil powder from China??? I hope you’re not serious to try such a risky concoction. :eek:
     
    Forester, lorilu, gskinner123 and 2 others like this.
  7. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    4,236
    Unless you are a bio chemist/scientist or something similar, with a laboratory at your disposal, then I think you’re bonkers to be even considering this.

    To be fair, it might work but the time and effort involved, not to mention the risk to your poor cat, should really make it not a viable idea.

    I use Frontline only about twice a year (not as often as recommended) and it works ok for my dog and doesn’t cost a fortune.
     
  8. David Davidson

    David Davidson PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    @Linda Weasel I do have a background in chemistry and a fair bit of lab equipment at my disposal. As for purify issues, there shouldn't be any but I have a friend with access to a GCMS and an IR spectroscope so I can always send a sample off for testing.

    As for testing it on my loved ones, fipronil is fairly safe even in humans so I had considered making myself the first test subject by applying 100mg (double the frontline dosage) to a patch of skin (in solution) and watching for any Ill effects, after all you can buy fipronil spray to treat your house, including bedclothes and it's much safer for mammals than permethrin or other -methrins (permethrin being toxic to cats IIRC, so I don't use it to treat my house, I just wash and vacuum) though I was thinking of making up fipronil spray as well, for home treatment.

    As for my cat getting fleas often, he's a very territorial tom and has had two abscesses which I've had to treat (dilute savlon as a disinfectant and pressure on the abscess to force the pus out; needless to say he didn't like this) as such I assume he often gets into fights with other cats, then there's the rodents he catches too, which undoubtedly have fleas.

    As for the cost, it's about £5 per "treatment" if I buy it in a pack of 3 from eBay, however getting a kilo of fipronil would be much handier, it would be for all intents and purposes a lifetime supply provided it was kept in a cool, dry, dark place.
     
    #8 David Davidson, Jun 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  9. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    17,356
    Of course he doesn't like it, it hurts!! Do you not take him to the vet for treatment for his abscesses? Or at least for them to show you how to drain them much less painfully?!
    Is he neutered at least?

    And I wouldn't say fipronil is fairly safe. My own dog has a terrible reaction to it, and it can cause seizures in animals, even those who have previously been fine with it. Another reason to go through a vet so they can record the batch number of any adverse reactions and keep a record going.
     
    chillminx, lorilu and lullabydream like this.
  10. David Davidson

    David Davidson PetForums Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    He is neutered, yes.

    A friend of a friend is a veterinary nurse, I got through to her via Facebook (both times) and her instructions were (provided he was eating properly and wasn't behaving any differently. In other words, if there was no sign of systemic infection; which definitely would require a vets visit) for me to use an antiseptic such as savlon (IIRC I was told to specifically not use any antiseptic which would go milky when diluted in water as they contain phenol, such as TCP) and if there was pus present (which there was in the abscess on my cat's head, just in front of his ear) to cut any fur around the abscess (so pus doesn't end up in the fur, reinfecting or worse, causing a secondary infection) after this feel the general size and shape of the abscess, get some gauze and covering the opening to the cut (you may have to peel back the scab if there is one, which there wasn't) then apply gentle pressure forcing the pus out into the gauze and repeat until there is no more, pus present whilst not using excessive pressure, cover with a warm damp gauze to try and draw any more pus out and then wipe the area down with dilute disinfectant.
    I was told this is exactly what the vet would have done, if there were signs of a serious abscess or systemic infection then antibiotics (possibly intravenous antibiotics and an overnight stay if the abscess had progressed far enough to cause severe sepsis) as for the second abscess he had it on the inside of his leg and I only noticed when playing with him as it was essentially in his armpit, this had progressed to fur loss around the general area. Again I got in.contact with the veterinary nurse and she suggested I check for signs of pus (there wasn't any, he kept cleaning it himself) and if there wasn't any to apply disinfectant (twice daily) and watch to see if it's getting better or getting worse by checking for more swelling, limping or general illness. There wasn't any and he improved over the weekend, if he hadn't he would have went to the vet.

    Thing is, vets now don't like prescribing antibiotics for an abscess unless it's bad and that's more as a prophylactic to guard against sepsis as antibiotics don't really do much for abscesses as they are acidic environments and antibiotic resistant bacteria are now an issue in pets too; so best to treat without antibiotics I was told, unless it was serious, with a small abscess being relatively minor in a healthy cat.

    Generally speaking fipronil is fairly safe, I'm sorry to hear about your dog having an adverse reaction to it, however batch numbers have never been recorded when I got the syringes (not the snap open packages, which are cheaper) of Broadline from the local vet (which also treat intestinal parasites) I appreciate your concern however my cat tolerates fipronil exceptionally well (I had to administer another treatment a week after the first one the first summer I had him as even with vacuuming, washing and careful (room locked for 24h to him) treatment of furniature with permethrin spray (shockingly branded as "flea spray for cats") the fleas kept coming back until I used a second pipette, though the first one may have been ineffective for some reason.

    As for the cat (Loki) he's very happy here, in fact he chose entirely to be here having been a stray (I assume, he walked into my property and after about 2 weeks of getting to know him as he was extremely shy) he moved in through the cat flap. Naturally I put up a "cat found" flier in the local shop and made a found pet post online but nobody claimed him as theirs. He seemed to have maybe come from an abusive household as any time I reached over him he would cower or run away, as if expecting me to bring my hand down on him. He's gotten much less shy with people over time however.

    Pic related, it's him.
    [​IMG]
     
    #10 David Davidson, Jun 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
  11. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    17,356
    No, it's not.
    Have you ever had an abscess? Or a serious infection? They hurt like hell and applying pressure to it must have been agony for the poor cat. You drain and flush abscesses, you don't 'pop' them by applying pressure. I've treated plenty of abscesses myself on horses and barn cats, and there is no applying pressure involved. Done properly, the abscess drains on it's own then you flush it out - GENTLY because it's very painful.

    But I just realized this is also the cat you pulled a tooth on yourself using rum as a painkiller?

    Sorry but you're not in a developing country, you have access to proper veterinary care and what you're doing is just wrong and cruel, and if it were in this country (the US) it would also be illegal. There is no reason for your cat to not have proper veterinary care. Has he ever even been to a vet? Been scanned for a chip?
     
  12. BarneyBobCat

    BarneyBobCat Slave to an AcroCat

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Messages:
    1,473
    Likes Received:
    4,814
    Veterinary products are subject to the same rules and regulations as human medicines. I'm a chemist working in the pharmaceutical industry for the past 19 years developing new drugs - I wouldn't dream of making my own treatments, far too many risks involved.

    Filrponil is well tolerated at the correct purity and concentration but it can be toxic and cause neurological damage.

    Not only is it dangerous to make your own drugs it is also highly illegal - you must be licensed to produce pharmaceuticals.
     
    LinznMilly, bearcub, O2.0 and 3 others like this.
  13. Sacremist

    Sacremist Mum to 2 cats and a dog

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    5,083
    It’s illegal over here too. If I knew where he lived, I would report him to the RSPCA. I’m hoping Admin have more info about him and do report him.
     
    lullabydream likes this.
  14. Calvine

    Calvine PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,764
    Likes Received:
    11,456
    :eek: Just . . . wow! I missed that gem.
     
  15. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Messages:
    27,305
    Likes Received:
    24,427
    @David Davidson - one of my neutered male cats has been bitten in the past by a neighbour's cat. As a result my cat developed an abscess each time. My vet definitely does not apply pressure to the abscess to drain it, instead he lances the abscess and cleans out the wound. Antibiotics, and pain relief in the form of Metacam, are prescribed for me to give the cat at home.
     
    LinznMilly, sandy-cat, O2.0 and 4 others like this.
  16. Calvine

    Calvine PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2012
    Messages:
    9,764
    Likes Received:
    11,456
    Right: I recall my vet used a syringe to draw out the liquid (abscess on neck), gave it a look and said she was satisfied the liquid was clear and that was pretty much that, told to keep an eye on it. Another though, who had an abscess hidden under her tongue, had to have it sorted under general anaesthetic and was discharged with painkillers, having had antibiotic injection at the time of the treatment.
     
    chillminx and O2.0 like this.
  17. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    5,972
    Likes Received:
    17,356
    Even abscesses with a scab often do better lanced as you can put the drainage hole in a better location for gravity to help drainage. Often abscesses open up in a spot that won't drain as easily.
    Which makes me wonder about @David Davidson's comment about not getting pus on the fur. That is what a properly draining abscess will do - drain, and it drains on to the fur. You keep it clean and flush the abscess out to keep the drainage going and to make sure it heals from the inside out.

    One of my horses was a pain about getting abscesses on his muzzle. He was a busybody in to everything horse and we joked that he kept putting his nose where it didn't belong. He was a star about letting me treat him though even though the betadine solution would get in his mouth, he can't have liked it! As it healed and got itchy he was a booger about rubbing his nose on unsuspecting people for a good itch getting slime and abscess junk all over them :Hilarious
     
  18. Cully

    Cully PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Messages:
    4,992
    Likes Received:
    14,249
    Home made flea treatment. Dentistry. Home treatment of a painful abscess.
    A free roaming cat who gets into fights. You did at least say he's neutered?
    OMG you didn't do that yourself did you!!??
     
  19. Sacremist

    Sacremist Mum to 2 cats and a dog

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    5,742
    Likes Received:
    5,083
    I know who does need neutering! God forbid, knowing some people might breed is terrifying. They can vote too. Lord help us!
     
    lullabydream likes this.
  20. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2013
    Messages:
    14,782
    Likes Received:
    22,369
    Come on anyone can neuter a male surely? It's shown on every TV show about vets, takes literally minutes....a bottle of rum knock the poor animal out job done!

    Obviously said in jest...have a feeling his cat and previous cats have hardly seen a vet in their life if they are trying to save on flea treatment! I think the cat maybe all natural...unless a bargain neuter. Considering the reluctance to take the cat to the vets in the first place because he turned up in the garden and must be a stray... Didn't want him to go back to his original owner well just in case there was one and he was microchipped. Although if wasn't would microchip asap to claim ownership...all seems a bit odd to me.
     
    Cully and Sacremist like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice