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Dinner time aggression? EBT

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by Keelygracey, Aug 15, 2019 at 7:40 PM.


  1. Keelygracey

    Keelygracey PetForums Newbie

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    Hi everyone,


    I’m looking for opinions, advice, anything that you think may help really! I apologise in advanced for the long post!


    We have two English bull terriers an older male who’s 5 and a female who’s almost 4. We’ve had them both from pups, both are neutered/castrated.


    They have always had the odd disagreement and little scrap where neither them walk away injured it’s always been just a lot of noise usually. 99% of time they get on fine and both just lay about the house all day. If/when they have fought We have no doubt that it has been triggered by the older male, because it’s almost always about food..


    My male EBT is OBSESSED with food, always had been. His never ever been aggressive towards us when it comes to food. He will let us near his bowl etc with no problems. However it’s a different story for my younger EBT, recently every meal time is a nightmare.. we feed them in separate rooms we always have and for a long time it’s never been a problem but recently he has made it his mission to seek her out as soon as his finished his bowl. He was prowl around the house watching her every move. My female EBT is so soppy and thinks everything’s fine so if she happens to just wander up to him he will instantly attack her. If she doesn’t approach him, he just watches her and it can ten or twenty minutes later and a fight can still break out..


    It’s hard to put the full story into one post but as previously said 99% of time he is the softest dog ever, all day his fine but when it comes to meal times he becomes possessed and almost needs a timeout to snap out of it.


    He has a long history of vet visits, his always been a sicky dog. He had a grade 3 tumour a couple of years ago which was removed and he was given the all clear. We have just recently had a full blood test done which cost us over £160!! As advised by the vet to rule out any potential health issue that could be causing the aggression - they came back fine.


    The vet recommended a behaviourist which was going to be our next step if things don’t improve.


    We have a two year old so we need to nip this behaviour in the bud.


    We have tried everything we can really think of that might make a different, the vet suggested feeding him more which we did but I really don’t see how he would be hungry.. he could eat both bowls and still think his hungry!


    We’ve tried feeding them at different times ie whilst the other is on a walk but it means one of them had to walk on a full stomach which isn’t good for them.


    We’ve tried secluding him after he eats to give him a chance to calm down but I just feel like I don’t want to make things worse!? Someone even suggested muzzling him after his eaten but I really don’t want to do that, I feel that would only have a negative impact.


    I know I probably haven’t given lots and lots of details so if you need to know more to offer any advise please ask.


    Thanks for reading :)

    Ps . The pic is of the suspect! Boon
     

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  2. Boxer123

    Boxer123 PetForums VIP

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    Are they still on separate rooms after ? Is it worth taking him for a walk after he has eaten? Do you remove her bowl straight away ? It might be worth getting a behaviourist in.
     
    Lurcherlad likes this.
  3. Lurcherlad

    Lurcherlad PetForums VIP

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    Maybe change the routine and rather than let him wind himself up over her in the house once they’ve eaten, take both for a short, slow walk round the block?

    Maybe leash him first so he can’t lash out at her.
     
  4. Sarah H

    Sarah H Grand Empress of the Universe

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    Make him work for his food, it will take him longer and keep his brain engaged and hopefully take his mind off your other dog. Scatter feeding, stuffed Kongs, treat dispensers, trick training etc, anything to get him to not guzzle the food down as quick as possible and let your bitch finish first and be put into the garden or another room where there is no food. Then let them both into a room/ the garden where there is no food, or pop her out of the way while he checks for food if he still wants to.
     
    Burrowzig, Lurcherlad and Boxer123 like this.
  5. Jamesgoeswalkies

    Jamesgoeswalkies PetForums VIP

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    You may find that you need a behaviourist as resource guarding is quite a complex issue in that it often isn't simply about the food - it's generally a behaviour associated with a dog feeling a bit insecure or unsure of himself and as this behaviour has increased recently it may be that a behaviourist will need to assess him and perhaps see why and give you a whole programme to work to - the actual feeding only being a part of it.

    In the meantime personally i would pre prepare all food when neither dog is present (so there is no anticipation around feeding time) and feed your female when your male is out on a walk. After he has returned I would keep the female in another room for quiet time and feed your male dog on his own. As he now has an established behaviour of becoming aroused during this time post feeding he will need to be left separated from your female until this rush of arousal has subsided. Maybe an hour. I would give him minimum attention although you can of course have someone sitting with him to help him calm.

    Then reintroduce the dogs away from any feeding areas ie; in the garden.

    J
     
    Linda Weasel, Twiggy, Sarah H and 4 others like this.
  6. niamh123

    niamh123 PetForums VIP

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    I would feed your girl first when your boy is out on a walk when he comes back leave him for about 30mins before feeding him and while he is eating take your girl out you already know the EBT are a complex breed and somehow we don't have an active forum in this country for our breed,I do belong to one in the US but the training methods they use over there are really quite harsh:(
    I have tried slow feeder bowls for my boy as he can eat his food in seconds but none of them seem to work for him he can get the loose kibble off the top but cannot get his muzzle to the bottom of them
     
  7. Keelygracey

    Keelygracey PetForums Newbie

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    Very complex! Some meal times his absolutely fine and within minutes they're playing, and I look at him like 'seriously?!'

    Your right, I did try finding a EBT forum but didn't have much luck, glad to see there are others on here though, your profile pic is lovely :))

    We have tried feeding them at separate times as mentioned but didnt know if this was making it worse, as he seemed to still follow her around and were also worried about the feeding then walking issue..

    x
     
  8. niamh123

    niamh123 PetForums VIP

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    As long as it is a gentle walk 30 mins after food should be fine,my Liam won't eat his breakfast for me he goes out for offlead for about an hour at 5am in the morning then she goes for a gentle walk around 9am he eats his breakfast whilst on this walk with me giving him handfuls at intervals I know this isn't the way to do it but it works for Liam,my dogs have no food guarding issues but they are fed in separate rooms but as soon as they are brought together they will sniff each others mouths as if no say leave me check if you have had something different to me:)
    By the way what are you feeding them and how many times a day:)
     
  9. Keelygracey

    Keelygracey PetForums Newbie

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    Thanks for you great reply, I will definitely start to prepare all food prior to feeding, I hadn't thought of that.

    We have on occasion shut him away after feeding when we've sensed his was acting suspiciously, giving him that time to calm down does help.

    Our house is quite open planned so although they are fed at opposite ends, there isn't actually any doors between them. At the moment we are keeping between them and ensuring she has finished and the bowls removed before we let him back into her area. He will always watch you pick his bowl up and put both bowls away before going elsewhere anyway, My partner will then sit down with them both or Ideally as a few people have mentioned, we leave the back door open and they both go outside happily and there's no issues.

    It seems to come out of nowhere really, some days he's fine, some days he's not.

    It's very odd because his fine with any other food, he is obsessed with food as previously said i.e he will always be in the kitchen if im cooking or hangs around if your eating but has never shown any aggression or guarding towards us.

    Forgot to mention we feed them both a raw diet, which is what they've both always had since pups, only minced bone, no whole bones etc.

    x
     
  10. Keelygracey

    Keelygracey PetForums Newbie

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    Yes, we have the mouth sniffing! Someone recommended wiping my female dogs mouth after she's eaten which I started to do (also because she has a habit of wiping her meat mouth all over the sofa!) not sure if this helps but they always have the same thing anyway!

    They are both raw fed, which we get from the butchers, minced meat and bones with veg and offal they've always had this since pups, the vet recommended feeding his more to ensure he is feeling full but we are also weary of him gaining too much weight. We feed twice a day, morning & night.

    x
     
  11. niamh123

    niamh123 PetForums VIP

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    Your in my opinion your feeding the best food I have fed raw for many years :)
    How is your dogs body condition and how heavy are they and what amount are you feeding them are you using premade raw mince blocks or just mince from the butcher and also what bones are you feeding,sorry for all the questions but I am just trying to get the bigger picture of your furbabys:)
    Also how much excersize do they get per day onlead or offlead
     
    #11 niamh123, Aug 16, 2019 at 10:54 AM
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019 at 11:00 AM
  12. Keelygracey

    Keelygracey PetForums Newbie

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    It does vary but it's always made up of mainly grinded beef with minced beef/chicken bone, we add the offal which is pigs liver or kidneys, lambs heart etc etc because of how he gets we try to make sure it's consistent. To be honest I've never weighed the amount they have, they've always had the same bowls so I have just come accustomed to knowing how much I put in each of there bowls. They are both is great condition, they have regular check ups and the vet is always happy with their build/weight. My female weighs 24kg and my male 29kgs, my male had a grade 3 tumour a few years ago which was removed successfully, he was intact up until May this year when we decided to have him done, he was a terrible 'humper' and was obsessed with marking his territory and sniffing absolutely everything, which thankfully has all subsided since. My female was spayed after her first season.

    They have lived happily with each other for 4ish years so it's heartbreaking to see when they don't get on!

    edit* Sorry forgot to add about exercise, they both get 30 min walk morning and night and then are in garden throughout the day during the week at the weekends they tend to get a longer walk where we'll all go to the field or to the beach if the tides out.

    x
     
    #12 Keelygracey, Aug 16, 2019 at 11:17 AM
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2019 at 11:37 AM
  13. niamh123

    niamh123 PetForums VIP

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    If I were you I would start weighing their food I have always found that mine need extra than the raw feeding guidelines to keep a good body condition as he is 29kg he should be having between around 600-900g per day which should be 10%bone and 10 %offal and your girl should be having between 480-720g per day with the 10% bone and offal Just thinking if he is not being fed these amounts could he maybe hungry.
    My dogs always need a bit extra to keep their body condition but do have a bit more excersize than your dogs,just wondering if you feed green tripe it's full of nutrients and dogs love it,also all meats including bones from your butcher should be frozen for at least 2 weeks before feeding to kill the parasites in the meat:)
    It's lovely having another EBT owner on here hope you stick around and would love if you could post some pic's of them on the Dog chat section:)
     
  14. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    I know it might sound a silly thing but I've always trained my dogs that when the palms of my hands are facing them with my fingers splayed and I tell them "All gone" that there's no more food/treats/chews etc forthcoming so there's no point in them begging or searching for more!
     
  15. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    If it works, it works. Am sure a lot of us owners say all gone at certain times if say treating dogs, rather than training.

    Not silly at all
     
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