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Denes Digestion Powder

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by Zombiepinup, Mar 4, 2020.


  1. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    I know this sounds silly but does anyone know the actual scoop/spoon size/volume that comes with the powder as I’ve bought it and the scoop is missing, Holland and Barrett don’t know either which is ridiculous. I know the dose is three scoops ( 1 scoop x3 daily)for a cat but without knowing the actual scoop size that means nothing, like is it a child medical 2.mg spoon, a5mg scoop who knows:( so if anyone uses this powder who has any idea please respond! Many thanks
     
  2. Bertie'sMum

    Bertie'sMum Obedient Cat Slave

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    I've had a look on "google" and can't see anywhere that mentions the size of the scoop - maybe you could try contacting Dene's via their website - https://www.denes.com/advice/digestion-powder-for-dogs-and-cats?___store=en

    (I did notice that couple of reviews mentioned how small the scoop was and how fiddly to use - one person said that it had the habit of "disappearing" into the tub whilst another said that her cat wouldn't eat the full dose so she halved it and then their cat would eat it and seems to be doing well on the lower dose)
     
  3. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    Yea it sounds very small I did see the reviews and I did contact the company and they had no idea either which is ridiculous
     
  4. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    I have had tubs of powdered supplements before (not Denes Digestive powder though) and the scoop has been tiny. Like you I thought there was no scoop in the tub, but when I dug right through to the bottom of the tub with a clean knife I found the scoop.

    If the scoop is definitely not in the tub, you could either ask Denes to mail you another one, or ask H & B to replace the tub of powder with a new one as the tub is incomplete without the scoop, and therefore not fit for purpose. (then keep hold of the scoop after the new tub is finished :))

    Btw, can I ask (just for my own interest) how the Denes Powder helps - does your cat have chronic diarrhoea if she doesn't have the powder? Thanks.
     
    #4 chillminx, Mar 5, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2020
    Torin. likes this.
  5. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    Yea he’s had chronic diarreah and skin irritations since December ,roughly 2-3 months after a rear leg amputation I personally believe the stress of the accident and surgery has triggered a massive allergic/stress response. We’ve done full blood and fecal testing ,worming etc all to find nothing. The vets said food allergy or IBD and I’ll be honest I’ve refused to cause him any more stress of invasive procedures like biospsy to confirm if it’s IBD as I strongly believe stress is the original trigger. He’s been on Purina HA since end of December, and has occasional steroid injections for the skin which do work ,I’ve tried various probiotics etc and we are at kind of a cycle of between hard and loose stools and new Sore skin patches every few days or so at the moment instead of liquid so there is improvement but still not where we should be. Ive been researching and I know he probably should be on wet food but I’m so scared of the diarreah being back as bad as it was, being a tripod it meant it was going all over his remaining back leg then seriously upsetting him when I’m trying to wash/clean him up etc I hate the thought of causing him any more stress I’m at my wits end if I’m honest I think it’s making me ill too lol
     
  6. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    .
     
  7. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Hi @Zombiepinup - so sorry, I meant to reply to you last night.

    One of my cats was diagnosed by the vet with IBD 8 yrs ago on the basis of clinical symptoms. (frequent, chronic vomiting and episodes of diarrhoea. ) No biopsy was done.

    I set about managing my boy's IBD with diet (by identifying his food allergies) and feeding him frequent small meals. He rarely vomits now and has loose stools very infrequently.

    You may like to read the pinned thread on elimination diets on these boards.

    https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/elimination-diets.509821/

    Can I ask how old your cat is please?

    I'm very happy to help with advice regarding dietary management of IBD and also skin problems. One of my other cats has allergic dermatitis which has been 100% controlled with diet for the past 7 years.
     
  8. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    He will be two in June , I have his brother who has no issues at all so it’s hard as I have to keep their food separate etc. I do know about elimination diets etc as I did discuss it with the vet but like I say I’m so scared as the tiniest amount of food sets him beck for 3-4 weeks at a time and like I say we are still not stable now but at least it’s not complete liquid like it is on anything else, before we put him on the HA he was only ever given fish, rice and chicken and I have a feeling he’s developed problems with all of them as we have tried giving him the tiniest amounts of his previous foods I mean not even a handful and it more or less immediately causes liquid diarreah like I say lasting 3-4 weeks before it even starts to go anywhere near solid :( i feel so badly for him. I don’t feel happy with RAW but I think I’d possibly be happy to get him into wet food eventually if it was better for his condition I’m just genuinely so scared I can’t deal with weeks of washing his remaining back leg and the awful sounds as he passes nothing but liquid again
     
  9. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    Out of interest I’ve read a lot about rabbit being used a a novel protein or single protein diet, what are your views on Feringa pure rabbit on Zooplus, would this be a suitable one to start with or would you go straight with the kangaroo you mention in your elimination thread?
     
  10. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    It is not advisable to use rabbit as a novel protein as it is quite often a meat that's included in some cat foods we buy in the UK. Even an inexpensive food such as Felix AGAIL has a recipe with rabbit in (or used to anyway, not sure if they still market it).

    You can use rabbit as a single protein food, but most cat foods with rabbit in contain other proteins too. Though there are one or two German makes that are pure rabbit. But my cat is not keen on them, as they are quite rich, and heavy in liver. But he adores 'real' rabbit, either cooked or raw. :)

    You could buy rabbit and home-cook it but would need to add a "completer" after cooking, one that is intended for adding to cooked meat so it has the right amounts of each vitamin and mineral.

    I wouldn't really advise feeding just one meat protein longterm, because there's a risk that in time she may develop an allergy to it, if she has already developed allergies to other meat proteins. But if you found that it was the only meat she can eat without being ill or itchy, then you may have to feed her that.

    The only thing I would add is that allergies developing to rabbit seem to be more common (IME) than allergies developing to e.g. turkey or pork. Just my take on things. :)

    The thing about feeding a genuine novel protein for 8 to 10 weeks is that it gives the immune system time to calm down before you challenge it again when you reintroduce the usual meat proteins.

    She may not like kangaroo, there is always that risk. Is she very particular about her food?
     
    #10 chillminx, Mar 8, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  11. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    No he pretty much eats anything i put in front of him especially at the minute he’s continually hungry. I only suggestive rabbit as I read it’s quite gentle on the stomach as his intestines are clearly so inflamed and sensitive right now like I say this started the beginning of December and he still hasn’t got solid stools. The next step vet wise they are suggesting steroid treatment but I read in your post that this can interfere with elimination results so would you suggest changing the diet first or going ahead with steroids and calming the reaction? Anti inflammatory antibiotics had absolutely zero affect neither have various probiotics (I found some completely meat additive or flavour free) etc so far and we are now 5 days into the digestion powder with no visible results yet
     
  12. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    You can do either. The steroids could be started at the same time as the diet, but the results of the diet could not be relied upon until after the effect of the steroids had worn off. This will mean keeping him on the novel protein diet for longer than 8 weeks. Probably an extra 2 weeks - i.e. 10 weeks altogether.

    Or you can do a short course of short-acting steroids first and then start the diet once the steroids have worn off. I would probably avoid long-acting steroids though, as the effect does not wear off usually for a month.

    Incidentally, fish, beef and chicken are the three most common food allergens in allergic cats. So if you remove those 3 proteins from his diet straight away you might find he is quite a bit better. Check the ingredients on the makers' websites to ensure the cat foods you give him are definitely free of fish, beef and chicken. On the packet they don't always list every ingredient.

    I would also remove all grains from his diet - including rice, as allergies to grains are quite common in cats with food allergies.

    Denes Digestive Powder has been around a long time. I remember trying it for one of my cats over 30 years ago, but It did not help her. I think as it has not helped your boy after 5 days it is not looking very hopeful. Sorry. :(

    Have you tried him on Protexin? That is usually effective as it contains kaolin which is firming for the stools. It is a good way of calming the intestines. But reviewing the diet is also important.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Protexin-Veterinary-Pro-Kolin-Syringe-60/dp/B007FB3YBO/ref=sr_1_11?crid=2UQYHFLV7WMNQ&keywords=protexin+veterinary+pro-fibre+for+dogs+and+cats+500g&qid=1583668124&sprefix=protexin,aps,142&sr=8-11

    I meant to ask if he is an indoor cat and has no contact with any pets who go outdoors? If not, have you had samples of his stools checked at the lab for parasites and bowel infections since the diarrhoea started?
     
  13. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    Yes he’s indoor as a tripod and so is his brother so no outside food sources he’s been on the Purina HA and Prebiotics only since the beginning of January but then he did manage to get some of his brothers carnilove salmon and trout so that set us back again he’s now had the Purina HA solely again plus simply supplements digestive aid for another 3 weeks. and yes full fecal and blood tests all negitive and they gave him panacur and metronidazole anyway. But nothing so far has returned him to normal healthy stools which makes me feel like maybe the IBD isn’t just diet related I still truly believe his amputation in September kick started all this :(
     
  14. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    And yes sorry we have tried about three different pastes including kaolin since this started that made no difference
     
  15. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    @Zombiepinup - well certainly being in s state of shock or under extreme stress can affect the immune system. My own allergies and asthma are more severe if I am stressed or in pain. and I expect cats are the same. But unless he is still under a lot of stress from pain, discomfort, or illness, I would have thought his immune system would have calmed down by now, as it is 6 months since his amputation. Was the amputation of his leg due to an accident, or to an illness?

    How do he and his brother get along? Has their relationship changed since they became indoor only cats?

    If your tripod boy used to have access to the outdoors how does he cope with being indoors all the time? Has he adapted do you think?

    Is he on any medicines right now? And do you give him treats or cat milk? Or anything that is not cat food as such?

    In view of the fact he has had faecal tests and blood tests which were all negative, plus your mention of skin irritations as well as loose stools, too, the problem sounds more like a food allergy to me.

    Whereabouts on his body are the skin irritations mostly?
     
  16. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    It was a high fall resulting in a double break. They have always been indoor anyway as I live on a VERY busy road so that hasn’t changed and him and his brother have always gotten along great I had them both fixed early on to make sure no rivalry etc from that point of view lol. I’ve never given them non cat food treats or milk and haven’t given him any cat treats since this started they’ve always been on dry brands. I’ve only ever given them Burns or most recently including time of the accident Burgess including the neutered cat one which are salmon and chicken based. Treats they used to have Dreamies or whiskers temptations occasionally but like I say not for a long time now. As for his skin it started on his neck and has had a few odd spots on belly or like under his legs where the leg joins the body if that makes sense. His neck seems very itchy sometimes and I do catch him licking where the sores start sometimes like on his belly. He’s currently on no medication as the vet wants me to try a full 8-12 weeks on solely the Purina HA
     
  17. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    I'm so sorry to hear the poor fellow had such a bad fall, resulting in him having to lose a leg. :( What a shock for you! It must have been traumatic. I feel for you.

    Dermatitis on the neck, head or face is often due to food allergies. Other parts of the body can be involved too. My boy with dermatitis used to get terrible itchy ears (also common in food allergies) sores on his head, around his neck as well as sores on his lower spine just above his tail. It was pretty bad. For the past 7 years he has been completely fine due to his special diet.

    I never had him on steroids. I had a bad experience with a previous cat who got diabetes as a result of being on longterm steroids for IBD.

    Re: Purina HA these are the ingredients :

    "Rice starch¹, hydrolysed soya protein², soya oil, minerals, cellulose, hydrolysate², animal fat, fish oil.
    [¹Source of carbohydrate, ²Source of protein.]"

    To me the problem is that it contains rice starch, which some allergic cats cannot tolerate. It also contains soya oil, which cats can be allergic to, and it contains fish oil, which being extracted from fish, is also quite a common allergen in cats. The soya protein is hydrolysed which at least in theory, should make it easier on the immune system.

    Another thing I noticed is that Purina HA contains bentonite , which is a type of clay used to bind stools where there is diarrhoea. So if his diarrhoea is better on the the food it will probably be due to the fact he is eating bentonite clay every day! It means the underlying cause of the diarrhoea is not being addressed, it is merely being covered up by giving him bentonite.

    I do understand you want to co-operate with the vet. I am happy to help you any time you need me. if you want to continue with the Purina HA that's fine. If there is no improvement in your boy's skin after 4 weeks perhaps you could consider switching to the novel protein elimination diet. And I will help you with it.

    How many weeks has your boy been on the Purina HA at this point?
     
    #17 chillminx, Mar 8, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2020
  18. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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    Since the very end it of December but like I say we had a set back as he managed to get some of his brothers kibble plus the vet said at the beginning I couldn’t count it because of the antibiotics and various things They tried so it’s now been 4 weeks with that being the sole food and the simply supplements digestive aid probiotics that don’t contain any flavourings etc and obviously the Denes powder which I tried but have given up as like you said if there’s no improvement after 5 days there wasn’t likely to be any. I do feel like I’d like to maybe get him into wet food or something else as like I say hes just constantly hungry bless him and it hasn’t really done the trick anyway. I just want him back to normal it’s seriously taking its toll on me too constantly worrying about him :( .Stool wise it’s a combination of semi formed and cowpat but that’s still a drastic improvement to the liquid and awful sound effects he was having. Also even though it’s been loose and liquid since December it’s never been multiple if that makes sense even on his worse days he’d been a maximum of 3 times in 24 hours but for the majority of the time he still only goes once a day so it’s not like he’s constantly dripping diarreah we just can’t seem to get it back to normal solid
     
  19. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    Poor boy, he has really been through a lot hasn't he, with the fall, the loss of a leg and now this awful diarrhoea. :( I understand it's stressful for you too.

    As I say I am happy to help you sort things out for him if you decide to stop the Purina HA. If you give it a good go, the vet can't complain if you decide you want to try something else.

    My vet wanted me to put my current diabetic cat on a special wet food for diabetic cats and she insisted it would help. She is a nice vet and I didn't want to seem unco-operative so I agreed to try my boy with it. But the food made him worse, he got diarrhoea and vomited and his blood glucose went out of control. So I stopped the food after a few days and put him back on the low carb wet food I'd had him on. But it took me several weeks to get his bowel OK again. The awful food had done such damage to his gut.

    Please keep posting to let me know how your boy is doing. :)
     
  20. Zombiepinup

    Zombiepinup PetForums Junior

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