[catz4m8z]

What is a kennel or a room?
A large crate.
So it is really not about training a dog re containment .
It is all about size.

Good point. Im not sure what the difference between a crate and a kennel is (indoors vs outdoors maybe??).
Crating is really my only option to keeping all my dogs. I mean I could have a pet room set up in the bedroom instead but then I would be taking a very social animal and locking it up away from the rest of its family, or it could be in a crate hanging out with the rest of us for company. Given that both my boys are very low energy, love their crates and hate being isolated I know which one seems more cruel to me. I would probably rather rehome then do that to them.
As it is they happily jump in their crates and when I let them out they just wind up snoozing in the same room anyways.....just a few feet away!

I can see why people might be concerned about misuse of crates but they are a lifesaver to some people and their pets. I really hate knee jerk reactions about things, its like banning certain dog breeds coz some people cant be trusted to look after them properly.

 

[catz4m8z]

Seems like some people on this thread dont allow for problem dogs like those who can demolish your house in a few hours or those will try and tear each other limb from limb if left to their own devices. Or maybe just sick or elderly dogs who need some peace and quiet from rowdy housemates?? Maybe we should all just give up and rehome or shut our problem 'kids' away in a nice safe empty room when needed.
Its all very well saying that people shouldnt get dogs if they plan on crating them long term but the thing is most of us really dont plan that! Problems or behaviours that arent safe arise after we have fallen in love with our pooches at which point we try and do what we can to give them a safe and happy life....sometimes that includes a crate.

 

[catz4m8z]

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Dogs who are so, so bad together should most likely be rehomed. I'm sorry it may sound harsh, but they are obviously living in constant stress to be that way to each other and have to be crated for long hours and kept away from each other.
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I agree. dogs living in constant stress probably should be rehomed. I suppose Im just really lucky that Im a crate fan then! My boys are horribly stressed if they are loose together in a room, even both on leads but if one of them is crated it creates a sense of security for them so they can be in the same room without any stress at all. They love their crates and tend to eat in there and often are found snoozing inside when they are supposed to be out. The only time they get stressed is when they want to be chasing the cat (but since they arent supposed to chase the cat the crate is probably a good thing!).
Crate and rotate takes alot of effort and time and def isnt an easy option. If I wasnt commited to my dogs and more importantly if they werent completely happy I would find another option like rehoming. I really dont think that a blanket ban on a useful item like a crate is helpful.

 

[catz4m8z]

I do know that a it is better for a dog to be able to move about than not. If a dog spends most of his time in a crate, it is better off in a kennel.
A dog needs not to walk all day, nor it should. It just needs to be a able to move about, when it wants to.

But those who think it is ok to keep a dog locked in a crate for hours to stop it wandering at home I hope that next time they will actually think that there could be a better way.

I think anybody who wants to crate a dog just to stop it 'wandering about' is exactly the kind of person who would misuse a crate and I agree then its not a suitable use of one. However not every dog constantly needs to wander around the house! My lot spend 95% of their time snoozing in their beds when they are home, both the boys and the girls who dont need crates. Hannah barely moves out of her catbed most of the time.
Also why should a crate prevent a dog from moving about?? Both my boys have a crate which is large enough to fit a decent sized bed and enough floor space for them to walk in a circle. They have toys and water and most importantly get to spend time in my front room with me and the rest of their family.

It may be helpful in not letting people slip into overuse without even realising it.
It's easily done and excused with it being the dogs love it. But if they are in for a large chunk of hours, then it is misused.
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I get that you are a fan of rehoming problem dogs but not everybody is. Sometimes we dont want to abandon them to a system that might not want to deal with their problems. Im not sure why you are lumping those of us with complicated pooches in with those who use a crate as a convenience. Its not an excuse that my dogs love their crates...its extreme gratitude on my part that they do and I dont have to lose them.

 

[catz4m8z]

For me it's a no briner and no, no matter what the circumstances are, if it's aggression or destruction, it's not fine and should never be allowed.

So for you the destruction of the dog would be preferable? Coz not alot of people are keen to rehome a DA or incredibly destructive dog....if said dog also happens to be a 'devil dog' then its pretty much an instant death sentence.

To use a crate for the safety of a dog is something I don´t understand on a permanent basis. What is so dangerous and different in your home that makes your home so different? Maybe those with similar circumstances could help, as the majority don´t need to crate a dog.

For me the question of using a crate for night time is a bit puzzling, my dogs need to move places in the night, and the older they get, the more they like to move about. But then is this typical? Are some dogs different?

As to your first point it suggests to me you dont really understand the kinds of problems some people face with their dogs. Not all dogs are perfect and sadly some are less fixable then they are manageable.
As to the second it sounds like you have some very fidgety dogs! My lot dont move overnight...which I know as they sleep in the bed (the boys alternate between bed and crate). Tell a lie, they do move if I shove them but Im not sure if that ever wakes them up!:Smuggrin

 

[catz4m8z]

Should we start talking about the sizes what are adequate for a dog then? Crates are usually small, a dog can stand and turn.

For foster/ rescue dogs situations for safety are different. Isnt´t that what the word temporary means? But surely the aim is to get the dog used into their new environment so that eventually they need not to be crated? You are not going to tell to new owners that if the dog has issues, just crate him. To me that would be very wrong and even cruel. You can see how easily we can misuse a crate, don´t you? I believe you are not suggesting a crate becomes an answer to solve problems permanently, as naturally a crated dog cannot do anything else but sleep. Using a crate every day for hours cannot be the ultimate solution, not even for rescue dogs.

A crate can be any size from tiny to enormous. Some dogs even prefer a smaller den for safety, just because they should be big enough that a dog can stand and turn around doesnt mean that it cant be much bigger.
I think everyone can see how crates can be misused and nobody is suggesting that the first course of action for a problem dog is to be crated. A caring owner would of gone through various attempts at training, vet visits, behaviourists, supplements, etc first. A crate can be the last resort between keeping your dog and loosing it and as long as the dog is happy then I think its a small price to pay. Please dont think that somebody chooses to crate their dog for safety reason as the 'ultimate solution', and please dont think they are all lazy or abusive either.

 

[catz4m8z]

I think it's a good point that others have raised, how do you safely leave a dog alone who is known to be destructive? People can't honestly think that completely puppy proofing a room is a feasible option, so what next bar a crate?? Haven't really seen that question answered.

I think the sad thing is that there is an option to a crate and its rehoming the dog and pushing the problem onto someone else. And yet you are horrible and abusive if you choose to keep your dog and use a crate to help with the problem!
Its a funny old world, isnt it!?