Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Coronavirus outbreak

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by kimthecat, Jan 22, 2020.


  1. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    Messages:
    8,942
    Likes Received:
    21,396
    Perhaps you should read this......

    https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/historical-precedents-lockdown-quarantine

    HOW DO THE QUARANTINE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED THROUGHOUT HISTORY COMPARE TO THE COVID-19 RESPONSE?

    COVID-19 has triggered lockdown measures for billions of people around the world. As many of us struggle to adapt to the ‘new normal’, we look at the origins of quarantine measures - and how they’ve been used to contain deadly outbreaks for centuries.
     
    kittih, ForestWomble and O2.0 like this.
  2. samuelsmiles3

    samuelsmiles3 PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    799
    My link in post 6532# has an interesting perspective on this.

    Your source is The Vaccine Alliance. Why wouldn't they push this insanity?

    "If the success of lockdowns is proven by lower mortality in Denmark, Norway, and Finland than in Sweden, then this should hold true in the Oresund region crossing Denmark and southern Sweden. In fact, Covid-19 mortality across the region is about the same"
     
  3. samuelsmiles3

    samuelsmiles3 PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    799
    From the same source -

    "Thus, countries that have had strict lockdown restrictions may be suffering economic devastation now, only to see more deaths in the future. However, if a safe and effective vaccine is put into widespread use, and prevents infections delayed by lockdowns, those deaths may not happen at all".
     
  4. StormyThai

    StormyThai Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,273
    Likes Received:
    21,324

    That's really interesting, thank you for posting it.

    I love the "wine windows" mentioned in Tuscany
     
    ForestWomble and Magyarmum like this.
  5. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,597
    Likes Received:
    19,500
    Massachusetts is a state, not a country. And they've had mask rules in place since May IIRC. My mom lives there and I know she was freaking out about how lax we are here about 1000 miles to the south. In may we definitely weren't wearing masks here. Maybe a few people here and there, but nothing widespread, and it was in May that we started opening things back up.

    I'm still very amused at this worry over wearing masks and what it does to young children. In large swaths of the world it gets cold enough in the winter that most people walk around outside with most of their face covered.

    [​IMG]

    If it were that much of a worry to spend months having to cover your face before you went outside, I think we would know about it by now :)
     
  6. ForestWomble

    ForestWomble PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 2, 2013
    Messages:
    18,235
    Likes Received:
    20,964
    That was really interesting, thank you. Like @StormyThai I liked the windows in Tuscany bit.

    @samuelsmiles3 I read your link and yes, lockdown, isolation, social distancing etc is having an impact on mental health, I'd be surprised if it wasn't really, I personally know people who have suffered with anxiety through this who have never suffered before, and of course it isn't good. Unless someone makes a time machine or finds some way of looking into the future, we won't know the long term impact until we get there, however I honestly don't see how we could of reacted any differently, as @Magyarmum 's link showed, what we are doing now has happened plenty of times with other pandemics.
    Maybe, just maybe the long term impact might be a greater understanding of mental health, maybe it'll be easier to get help, maybe we will come out of this stronger with a better community spirit like they had during the War. Or maybe your link might show the truth and we'll have a generation who will be blaming us for years for how we dealt with this, we just don't know.
    For me though, I'm glad we didn't follow Sweden. every death is one death too many, but the numbers would be far, far higher if we'd just carried on, no masks etc. I'd rather get through this alive and my loved ones alive, then be dead or morning a loved one.

    Edited to add: I know I do, and I'm sure plenty of others feel safer due to the measures in place, I honestly believe no measures would have a greater impact on mental health in that we'd have a potential high percentage of people too frightened to leave their homes if masks weren't being worn and an extremely high percentage of people grieving one or more family members and friends who would have died, possibly even ending with far to many children orphaned.
     
    #6546 ForestWomble, Aug 12, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
    lorilu, StormyThai, rona and 5 others like this.
  7. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,597
    Likes Received:
    19,500
    Magyarmum, StormyThai and Boxer123 like this.
  8. Siskin

    Siskin Look into my eyes....

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2012
    Messages:
    13,859
    Likes Received:
    22,075
    I think any anxiety I would have due to lockdown, isolating, masks and anything else you can think of @samuelsmiles3 that seems to have been totally the wrong things to do would be far outweighed if nothing had been done at all. I wouldn’t have gone into the garden let alone along the road.
    I can honestly say I have not become anxious, upset, depressed or suffered any kind of mental torment due to lockdown and wearing a mask, I’ve been thankful and relieved. I’ve had other things to become anxious, upset, depressed about 5his year, and I didn’t allow that too happen.
    Maybe I’m a positive thinker and don’t dwell too much on what may or may not happen. I could have easily descended into a pit of despair this year especially with the added worry of covid 19, but I didn’t. Having to stay in and shield and now wear a mask in certain situations didn’t and currently doesn’t worry me at all. I’m just happy to be alive.
     
    Jesthar, Cully, Lurcherlad and 4 others like this.
  9. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,597
    Likes Received:
    19,500
    This is exactly how I feel about mask wearing. If me wearing a mask makes someone else feel safer about going out and being near me, then I am happy to put that mask on.
    And I think you're right. A lot of people are frightened, if I can do anything to help ease that fear, I'm happy to do it.
     
    lorilu, ForestWomble and Lurcherlad like this.
  10. samuelsmiles3

    samuelsmiles3 PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    799
    "still very amused at this worry over wearing masks".

    I'm sorry, but I don't find it amusing. Not least because of the fact that the evidence of their efficacy is so flimsy. It appears the images of young children in a school in Thailand wearing masks and isolated in plastic cages doesn't alarm anyone else here. I think I'm on my own?

    I consider myself to be so lucky to be in the position I'm in. I still have an income, I live in rural countryside, can just walk out of my cottage and be in wide open spaces within seconds and can drive to other amazing places in minutes. Despite this it is difficult, so I can only imagine what it must be like for a single person with young children living in a little flat in the city somewhere. Maybe they've lost their job or business. No access to countryside. No income. It's frightening to think how some must be suffering from our approach to this virus. We didn't need to do it this way.

    We now know where we went wrong the first time. We know who is at risk and who has absolutely minimal risk, and should be able to adapt our lifestyles to protect the vulnerable and let the rest live their lives without fear.
     
  11. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2015
    Messages:
    8,942
    Likes Received:
    21,396
    This article is by the same author who wrote "The Lockdown Lobotomy" which @samuelsmiles3 quoted.

    https://thecritic.co.uk/face-masks-make-you-stupid/

    Face masks make you stupid

    Why face masks are a form of dehumanisation

    Patrick Fagan who wrote both article is a lecturer in Consumer Psychology at the London College of Fashion which I would have thought, though it might make him qualified to write about face masks doesn't make him an authority on Sweden, Herd Immunity and the Covid-19 virus.

    Two interesting reviews about the Critic Magazine where the above articles were published

    https://medium.com/@claire.alleaume...-political-and-cultural-magazine-17f7c88e950e

    A critique of The Critic, the UK’s new political and cultural magazine


    https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/202...an-conservative-magazine-the-critic-makes-its

    Does Britain need another contrarian conservative magazine? The Critic makes its case
     
    O2.0 likes this.
  12. samuelsmiles3

    samuelsmiles3 PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2019
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    799
    I haven't the energy for any more of this at the moment, Magyarmum.
     
  13. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,597
    Likes Received:
    19,500
    Ha ha! If you look at the original study quoted in the "Masks Make you Stupid" article, the participants wore a *disguise* not just a mask.
    I'd say stupid is not knowing the difference between a disguise and a partial face covering like a surgical mask.

    #stillamused


    Okay, but seriously. Is it concerning to see images of children in 'cages'? Of course it is. Is that sort of thing happening throughout Thailand, or was that just one example of multiple different ways of taking precautions? Is this happening in the UK? Other countries? In the US we have children in cages for other reasons :rolleyes:

    Here's the thing. Taking precautions is a good thing. Any good thing can get out of hand, that doesn't mean it's not a good thing to take precautions, it just means we can't go overboard with it. Asking people to mask up so that businesses can open and stay open is not going overboard. Putting on a mask when you walk in to a building is not a hardship, you walk out, take it off, no biggie.
    If we find out months or years down the line that we were wrong and masks didn't do anything to help, okay, we learned something. But other than lots of crafty seamstresses earning some extra cash, and most of us learning how bad out breath really smells, no real consequence of adding masks to our daily routine.
     
    EmCHammer, Jesthar and Magyarmum like this.
  14. mrs phas

    mrs phas karma is a funny old thing

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2014
    Messages:
    5,413
    Likes Received:
    8,579
    Nope, at least I don't think so
    It just happens to be my name:Happy
     
    kimthecat likes this.
  15. Boxer123

    Boxer123 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Messages:
    11,576
    Likes Received:
    27,226
    Ellie&cats and rona like this.
  16. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Messages:
    16,009
    Likes Received:
    19,975
    :Hilarious :Hilarious I didnt know that! :D
     
    mrs phas likes this.
  17. StormyThai

    StormyThai Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    9,273
    Likes Received:
    21,324
    Is it?

    I thought the science on mask wearing was pretty clear.
    https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/4...s-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
    https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202004.0203/v1
    https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-oxford-covid-19-study-face-masks-and-coverings-work-act-now

    Granted, the media decided to make it confusing and at the start we didn't want panic buying of medical masks reducing availability to those at serious risk...but the science has always shown that face coverings reduce the droplet cloud.
     
  18. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 23, 2018
    Messages:
    6,597
    Likes Received:
    19,500
    Yes, the media have really done a number on their credibility, though I get wanting to avoid panic buying - especially after how we behaved with toilet paper :rolleyes:
    But seriously, how hard would it have been to say that masks do indeed help reduce the spread, but also explain not to panic buy, *and* explain that masks are to protect others, not yourself. Unless it's an N95 mask. Okay, never mind, that was a lot of information and we all know it doesn't fit in a headline...

    But you know, the other problem is that we live in a weirdly anti-science time. Where we put up debates over flat earth vs. round earth as if both sides of that argument have merit. Everyone has a right to an opinion and you can't tell me what to think.
    Next thing you know we're also giving voice to celebrities telling us that measles isn't that bad of a disease, and doctors who claim demon sperm is what gives you endometriosis. So then people throw up their hands and don't believe anything, not even the real science :(
     
    Magyarmum and StormyThai like this.
  19. stuaz

    stuaz PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2012
    Messages:
    3,162
    Likes Received:
    3,289
    I think we should tell the doctors preforming operations and surgeries that they don't need to wear masks when doing so.

    Clearly they don't do anything! :rolleyes:
     
    O2.0 and Magyarmum like this.
  20. Arny

    Arny PetForums Senior

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2017
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    1,060
    It wasn't the media, it was the government.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice