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Confused about Crate Training v Toilet Training at night

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by DebsPink, Jul 26, 2009.


  1. DebsPink

    DebsPink PetForums Member

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    I have an 8 week Jack Russell puppy. She has a crate and I've been keeping the door open during the day and closing it at night. She also has a playpen and is happy to go in there during the day too. We've been taking her out to the garden to toilet at the usual times, but it's pretty hit and miss if she goes or not. When in the crate (or playpen) she seems fairly relaxed about us coming and going but at night she absolutley howls about being left alone. We would not have her in the bedroom (there's not enough room anyway) and have been trying to get up to let her wee in the night. The trouble is we need to ignore the howls so she doesn't think it will get us to come down (she kept it up for 50 mins the first night, 35 mins the second and 45 last night!) So how can I tell when she's stopped howling for that and wants a wee? She's usually done it in the crate anyway so when we take her out at 3am or so, she doesn't go. Any ideas anyone?
     
  2. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    I would set regular time for letting her out at night. Say 2am, then 5am.

    You can go down to her when shes crying if you think she needs the toilet, but dont speak to her, or really look at her. Take her outside, encourage her to go, reward her if she does, then put her back in her crate without fussing her.

    She will have accidents, but she will soon learn to hold it.
     
  3. aurora

    aurora PetForums Senior

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    when Meg was a new puppy she was crated at night, no nosie what so ever, we gave her a hot water bottle to cuddle, a small biscuit and put a blanket over her cage to keep her cosy and covered up and snug. We left no lights on or music and she was as good as gold. Yes we don't go to bed early so pup had a last wee at about 12 midnight and slept through til i got up for work at 5,30 so she has always been dry, excellant pup we have only had one wee in the house in 15 months and that was because the OH was on the phone and never saw Meg wanting to go out when she was little.

    good luck :)
     
  4. Buggles

    Buggles PetForums Senior

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    I remember those nights so well, with previous dogs we have had (Alfie loves his sleep too much to howl in the night!)

    Which room is the crate in? Do you put a blanket or anything over the crate to make it completely dark?
     
  5. DebsPink

    DebsPink PetForums Member

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    The crate is under a table in a corner in the dining room/study next to the kitchen (it's a small house so it's a very central position. We don't actual use the table for eating - just keeping stuff on. ) I've put towels over it to make it cosy and she has a little bed and blanket. She also had the towel from the breeder the first night - but she soiled it so I had to wash it. I read that you should leave a light on, so I've been keeping a small light on - is that wrong? No noise (radio etc) though) It's so hard with so much contradictory advice. We go to bed quite late too, but get up later. I couldn't survive on 5 1/2 hours sleep a night!!!! I need my 8 hours. Maybe I should consider getting a curtain to put across the conservatory door as that lets a lot of light in early in the morning.

    I still can't really tell when she needs the toilet (pooh yes, wee no) I don't think even she can tell sometimes. I've taken her our loads of times and rewarded for doing well when she does go. Does anyone use Puppy Pads - these seem like a good idea to save my carpet - but I've also read they contradict all the other training!

    I've read some crate training instructions that the puppy should stay in the crate at all times unless outside going to the toilet and for a couple of hours in the afternoon for 10 days. It doesn't mention going out at night. Also some guidance says make the crate small so they won't soil, other say make it bigger and have newspaper for the night - it's so confusing!!!

    Aurora - you don't know how lucky you are! What breed is Meg?

    Thanks for the advice so far!

    Debs x
     
  6. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    I really dont think you should leave the puppy in the crate all the time. I would have thought that would be totally miserable for it and turn it into a very lonely and withdrawn puppy. I would totally ignore the noise at night, it will go away. I dont get up to puppies either. Luckily my husband is happy to stay up till about 11.30 or midnight and I dont mind getting up at 6 for a few nights. Though to start with I was putting my current pup to bed at 10.30 and getting up at 7am. Never had a sound or an accident. They cant all last this long though.
     
  7. sallyanne

    sallyanne Guest

    I crate trained mine,both during the day and at night.

    At night we had the crates upstairs,took them out before bed and put them into the crates and shut the door.
    They wimpered for about 10 minutes,we ignored it,they then would wake up during the night so we would get up for a toilet break,outside without any fuss,no speaking nothing,praise and treat for going outside then back to bed.

    We would extend the time every night by around 5/10 minutes so gradually they went through the night.

    If you don't want to do this then I think Nonnie has made a great suggestion of getting up during the night for toilet only,but I would only go to the pup when it was quiet not when making a noise.

    I don't like training pads as you are effectively training twice and giving the signal it's ok to toilet indoors when it's not.

    Young pups have no control so if you don't read the signals they will toilet in the wrong place,that's why during the day when they are active it's important to take them out every 30 minutes or so,after play,meals,sleeping etc and stay with them till they have performed.
     
  8. karen09

    karen09 PetForums Member

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    mac never cried. never got up through the night after a couple of weeks he stopped pooing in crate just wee. then stopped weeing and used to bark for me bout 6am. would say dont get up through the night and eventually they will learn to wait like a child learns to control their bladder at night. i used to leave my daughter if she had wet the bed and was still asleep. she soon learnt to get up if she wanted a wee.
     
  9. aurora

    aurora PetForums Senior

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    Hi Meg is a border Terrier, how are you getting on with your crate training,:)


    Meg is the 1st dog i've crate trained, but it's the way to go, my other 2 were longer getting toilet trained because we never used a crate.
     
  10. EmzieAngel

    EmzieAngel PetForums VIP

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    I've used puppy pads.
    Other people say don't use them because it is then hard to train them to go outside, but it didn't with our puppy.
    He only went on the pads during the night and sometimes through the day if we didn't get to him quick enough to make him follow us outside (we put pads in all the dark places during the day, like under tables and under my computer desk) and he would go on them, we didn't get up during the night to let him out either.
    By the 6th night he was doing really well with toilet training and since then he slept through, though he did wake up and toilet, but didn't make a noise and just went back to sleep, but then a few days after that he stopped toileting through the night altogether.
    x
     
  11. DebsPink

    DebsPink PetForums Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion. I did turn all the lights out and put a blanket over three sides of the crate. She slept all night not a murmer! I did get up and take her out at 3am which wasn't wasted! Then she went back in the crate and stayed until about 7.30. Brilliant! Cross fingers she's the same tonight.

    Also today we were playing in the garden and she ran up the other end on her own and did a pooh in her designated area! I was really impressed with that! :)

    Debs x
     
  12. james1

    james1 PetForums VIP

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    You have to make sure she is tired enough that when she does go into her crate she sleep, you should also not make a fuss of her going in there - just put some food in there for her to chew through to fall asleep on. If she has been sleeping before her bedtime she will be awake so try to keep her awake later - im not saying play with her to exhaustion just simply keep her awake with name calls, petting maybe or a little play, then when it is time just pop her in:)
     
  13. Buggles

    Buggles PetForums Senior

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    Which 3 sides of the crate did you put the blanket? It needs to be that she cannot see anything at all. I'm glad it worked for you!
     
  14. DebsPink

    DebsPink PetForums Member

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    Oh I put it on the top, sides and back and left the front open. I didn't think you meant over the whole thing - doesn't that scare them? It would scare me!

    Does anyone else do this? Is it just while she's little and settling in?

    Thanks,

    Debs x
     
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