Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Colour coding for Tica

Discussion in 'Cat Breeding' started by kelzcats, Aug 21, 2019.


  1. kelzcats

    kelzcats PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    58
    Can anyone tell me what a British shorthair lilac and white bi code is in Tica and do the gccf give you a different code when you transfer a cat to them?
     
  2. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
  3. kelzcats

    kelzcats PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    58
    On the tica pedigree he is down as a Bri a for his colour which I thought was a blue is it different for tica, should it be BSH c 03.
    Not sure if I'm explaining myself right, is Lilac & white bi BSH c 03 for gccf or Tica
     
  4. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
    BSH c 03 is for GCCF. BRI a is blue, not lilac.
     
  5. kelzcats

    kelzcats PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    58
    Yes I know BRI a is blue and BSH c 03 is lilac bi I just want to know what code a lilac & white bi is for Tica and if the gccf change the gems code once you register the cat with them?
     
  6. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
    GCCF register the cat using their own codes. The cat will be registered with both TICA & GCCF, the cat's TICA code & registration number will be unaltered, the cat will have an additional registration number & breed code from the GCCF. And given that the GCCF are following TICA, I imagine a lilac & white in TICA should be BSH c 03 or BRI c 03. Older cats will have BRI on their papers, younger BSH. If you register a cat whose TICA code is 'BRI a' with GCCF then the GCCF will use BSH a, rather than BRI a, because BSH has supplanted BRI.

    Both used to use BRI for British Shorthairs, but the British Longhair came along, TICA changed BRI to BSH and the GCCF followed suite:

    5. GEMS code amendment for British Shorthairs in line with FIFE
    5.1 When it recognised the British Longhair FIFe had changed EMS to reflect this. The BSH was no longer BRI, but BSH and the British Longhair became BLH. 5.2 Mrs Rainbow-Ockwell reminded Council that it had been agreed that GEMS would keep in line with EMS and proposed the change.

    https://www.gccfcats.org/Portals/0/Counci.Feb17.pdf?ver=2017-03-20-140317-170
     
  7. kelzcats

    kelzcats PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    58
    Thank you for your help I have been looking on the WCF - EMS code site and it shows the recognized bodies, I don't understand why she is saying BRI a is lilac and white bi code when it shows on the pedigree parents are BRI c 03, she has said to me GCCF codes are different doesn't make sense.
     
  8. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
    I'm astonished tica would register a blue out of two lilacs - gccf would not. Gccf would not change the incorrect registration, as its done from the tica pedigree without sight of the cat. I would be very wary about this as I'm not sure how easy registering the cat with gccf would be. Originally if was thinking of cfa who have a vast list of numbers to denote a cats breed & colour
     
  9. kelzcats

    kelzcats PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    58
    Sorry misprint dad was a blue and mum a lilac & White bi, with the codes of BRI a and BRI c 03 so it just shows the codes are the same as Gccf, it didn't register till I looked again.
     
  10. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
    So is the Cat correctly registered with tica? If not suggest that is fixed before registering it with gccf
     
  11. kelzcats

    kelzcats PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    58
    No he is showing as a blue on his pedigree but the cat advertised is a lilac and white bi, she incised the coding is different to the gccf, she is not the breeder of the cat so she will have to contact them to get it corrected
     
  12. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,698
    Why are you not walking away from this whole situation. First there was an issue with titles, now an issue with colour.

    Blues and lilacs in British can often be confused.

    The current owner can change the colour with GCCF, it doesn't have to be the breeder. Likewise with TICA.
     
  13. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
    "Blues and lilacs in British can often be confused." The blues and lilacs I've seen on the bench are clearly different, maybe this is a very poor colour blue or lilac to lead to confusion. I've certainly seen some interestingly 'hot' creams which leads to the suspicion that caramel is in the breed, whatever the BAC says.

    However I am totally confused by the OP's situation. Is it a kitten or cat she wants to buy that's BRI a instead of BRI c 03? Even if lilac & blue were confused how could the 'with white' be missed?

    And as per my earlier quote from the GCCF Council Minutes, the GCCF GEMS codes for BSH are in line with the TICA EMS codes. It strikes me this is an older cat to be BRI a rather than the newer BSH a.
     
  14. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,698
    EMS codes were developed in FIFé, by Dagny Dickens who also started PawPeds. Registries like TICA are in line with FIFé, not vice versa.

    GEMS codes are a law unto themselves. Any cat with any amount of white (excepting lockets and tail) are registered as 03 bicolour, unless they're a mitted breed. Where 09 is used in EMS for with white, 09 is recognised in GCCF except as a fault.
     
  15. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
    Yes, GEMS varies a bit from EMS in some areas, but for BSH blue, lilac & bicolours it's the same, and it's most certainly the same in using 'a' to denote a blue cat, and 'c' to denote a lilac.
     
  16. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,698
    I don't disagree, I think you're confusing the issue by referring to them as TICA codes and saying GCCF follow TICA. They don't, they follow FIFé (apart from the white).

    I will refer back to my original post that there are a fair number of poorly coloured blues being sold, and the fact that the current owner is selling him on as active shows that they're hardly reliable or ethical, and unlikely to know what they're doing.
     
  17. Tigermoon

    Tigermoon PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    4,144
    Likes Received:
    7,265
    TICA do not have colour codes. They write the colour out in full on their registration documents and certified pedigrees.
     
    OrientalSlave likes this.
  18. OrientalSlave

    OrientalSlave Shunra Oriental Cats

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    12,725
    Likes Received:
    7,998
    I blindly followed the OPs request, and at first thought of the thousands of CFA numerical codes...
     
  19. gskinner123

    gskinner123 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    1,504
    That isn't the case. BSH use 01 for Vans, 02 for Harlequin and 03 for bi-colour. Each variety has its own SOP and requirement for amount and placement of white and colour
     
    OrientalSlave likes this.
  20. Rufus15

    Rufus15 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2015
    Messages:
    5,496
    Likes Received:
    6,698
    I wasn't referring to 01 or 02. For example, my cats with white on paws, belly and chin are classed under GEMS as 03. They are not bicolour, they should be 09, but GCCF does not recognise 09 except in NFO.

    01 and 02 are the same across the board.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice