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Cocker puppy fowling in sleeping quarters

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by jamesmills, Aug 2, 2009.


  1. jamesmills

    jamesmills PetForums Newbie

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    Hi everyone...

    We picked up 'Molly' on Friday 31 July (Friday just gone). Pictures here.

    She is very adventurus and a great puppy. We are not having any problems with her apart from at bed time.

    We have opted for a travel pen like thing to put her in at night and plan to use the same thing for when we are out and in the future for staying at friends etc. (looking into the future of course). We felt this would be a good option as it means she is safe when unsupervised (and can't chew wires etc) and it is also emotionally containing for her as it is her own safe little environment.

    We put her to bed on Friday night and as we expected she cried. She then went quite and then around 2am started to cry again. I popped into check on her and she had pooed in her pen. Last night we tried our best to keep her awake for the evening and played with her loads to tire her out. We put her in her bed and then went to bed. She cried most of the night with no brakes, but we tried not to give in her to her crying (we have read everywhere that we should stay strong so she learns to sleep alone) and when we can down in the morning found her to be covered in poo. We cleaned everything and bathed her. We decided to keep putting her in the pen throughout the day to try and get her more used to the area. She was looking sleepy so we put her in and went out of the room... she cried and cried so I went into the kitchen and acted as if i was doing something else with no connection with her and saw she had pooed AGAIN and it was all over!!!

    We have just now again noticed she was sleepy so put her in a cleaned out pen with 'pet away' spray all over and we also tried to feed her in her pen today. She cried almost immediently from leaving her, I used a webcam I have purchased to view her in her pen and she had pooed almost immediently. We have now cleaned this and cleaned her and put her straight back in there and left the room and she is now sleeping with no worries at all.

    We try to take her out to do a poo before going to bed but nothing. She was out before putting her in her pen today but she still only pooed when in her pen.

    Any suggestions. Also can someone please set us straight. Can we go let a puppy out in the middle of the night? What if you let them out and they dont do anything?

    Thanks,

    James & Fiona
     
  2. AJH

    AJH PetForums Junior

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    Puppies are like babies needing nappies: they are young, therefore their bowels (and bladder) are undeveloped so they cannot help but poop uncontrollably. They have also not been toilet trained yet so they will not have learned to go outside. This is especially the case if you have only just got her. If you leave her in a pen all night, then she will poo and the entire pen will be filthy.

    The best option is to give her a chew toy and let her sleep in your bedroom, not in a pen. The chew toy will keep her from getting bored so she will not chew wires, etc. and she will be under your supervision. She will also cry less because she will feel safe around you. Being less restless also means she is less likely to chew things. You can spray the wires with some antichew spray or something they won't like the smell/taste of. You will have to clean the floor in the morning (because she will poo and wee) but it will probably be better than the pen option. You can let her sleep on her own when she is older, more matured and trained not to teach wires.
     
  3. Louby

    Louby PetForums Junior

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    i got my puppy a week ago - i also have a travel crate - i have never locked my pup into it though - although i know that is what everwhere tells you to do - i made it more like a kennel, she has a small area near the back door with her crate, food/water bowl, toys and a couple of puppy pads. I have never had a problem with him messing in his crate, and the puppy pads are very rarely being used now.

    i know i am not doing by the book - just thought i would mention it.


    hmmm i have just re-read this post and have no reason why i changed the sex of my Perry lol - i hope HE doesnt get a complex :)
     
    #3 Louby, Aug 2, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2009
  4. flufffluff39

    flufffluff39 PetForums VIP

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    She is crying because she wants to go to the toilet but does'nt want to do it in her pen most probably. My pups were asking for toilet time at the age of 7-8 weeks and they were put outside in their pen. It is like having a baby they know when they need to go and don't like being dirty :) Hope this is helpfull.
     
  5. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

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    Hi, after you feed your puppy dinner, take her out about 20 - 30 mins later to toilet. Stay out until she goes (pee and poop- because she WILL need both) and praise loads.
    Put her in the crate to settle, maybe after a wee game and out for a pee (they need to pee again after exitement).
    If you put the crate in your room, you will hear her if she wakes up. If she does wake in the night, take her outside on her lead, do not turn any bright lights on or make too much fuss. If she does not pee then back to bed.

    Puppies often cannot hold their bladder/bowels right through the night.
    If you let her sleep in your room without the crate she will be more likely to quietly go poop in another corner away from her bed.

    Giving hera chew and putting a cover over the crate will help her settle.

    x
     
  6. Ted&Sarah

    Ted&Sarah PetForums Junior

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    Our puppy used to do this when he was younger (20 weeks now). We have had success with a combination of waiting outside with him at night until he goes - sometimes over 30 mins, now he is much much quicker - and having his crate near our bedroom so he settles quietly without fuss.

    If he is scared and stressed about being left alone and anxious that can cause him to go. You need to make him feel safe, secure and not alone when left so he doesn't associate the crate with being left. I also feed him in his crate as they will rarely mess where they eat - unless of course he is desperate and can't hold it. Try not to put him in if you know he will need to go soon.

    Hope this helps - it worked for us, haven't had any mess for quite a while now.
     
  7. jamesmills

    jamesmills PetForums Newbie

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    Hi all,

    Thanks to everyone who has got back to us. She did better last night but that was because we put her to bed 20mins before we were going to bed. She did a poo and we went in, cleaned it and put her back to bed and left. We did not feed her after 7pm last night also and she did not poo during the night.

    Fiona went down at 5.30am to let her out. She did not do anything and she put Molly back in her pen and went upstairs. Using the webcam we saw she pooed straight away after she was left.

    Although we are very grateful for the advice. We are really not wanting to take her into our bedroom. Both our parents have dogs and whilst they were puppies they were left in the kitchen and after a few nights everything has been fine. The issue we are having here is the fact she poo's as soon as she is left.

    We are trying to put her in her pen more often and we were thinking of moving it into the main room in the evening and playing with her in it? Does anyone have any opinion on this way of getting her more comfortable with her pen?

    I have just put her into her pen and I am sitting in the same room working. I was thinking if she settles then I would move out of the room.

    We are really finding it hard to get her to poo when outside or any time other than when she is put in the pen.

    Thanks again,

    James & Fiona
     
  8. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

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    Hi, if she is pooping during the night, then you will have to take her out, and stay until she goes, or else she will carry on doing it!
    She will soon learn that she gets to go back inside to her warm bed once she has been.
    You will get some sleepless nights to start off, but in the long run it will be far better than having to clean up poop every night!

    Does she poo outisde any other time? If not, then after she has her breakfast. 20 mins or so later, take her outside and stay until she goes. You can break it up a bit if she does not go straight away by having a game, and giving her loads of praise when she does eventualy poop.


    In other cases I would have said to put the puppy back in the pen but I doubt that would work as she will mess anyway.

    Just out of interest, when she is in her pen, how much room does she have to move around?

    x
     
  9. lynn9994

    lynn9994 PetForums Junior

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    Do you lock her in the pen during the day? Only i get the impression if shes not in her pen she's outside with you to go to toilet. Yes by all means lock her in the pen at night if you want although i would leave it open until she is toilet trained even if she goes on the pads, at least the pen will stay dry and she won't sleep in it, I would suggest the door is left open in the daytime, with puppy pads down so she can wee if u are not around, and explore the kitchen leave the back door open so she can wander outside on her own. You will also have to be prepared to take her out during the night on a regular basis or if she is crying through night go down and let her out and praise her if she goes. Don't play with her when she has done her business put her back in her pen til morn.

    The rule usually is>
    Put her out first thing in morn.
    10mins after a meal
    After playing
    When she wakes up
    Before bed
    During the night

    Praise her when she goes with a treat but not a treat everytime. Don't tell her off if she does not go she will get confused and never tell her off for doing it in pen this will confuse her as well. With time and dedication she will soon get the hang of it. I do know from experience Cockers can be slow but not all of them. Of course you are bound to get the odd accident later on but it will pass as they get older. Good Luck:D
     
  10. Purplejellyfish

    Purplejellyfish PetForums Member

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    Alfie, our staffie, is locked in his crate at night for safety too. Initially we would find a poo in the morning and have a messy puppy and crate to clean up. However, he is 13 weeks old now and has not pooed in his crate for at least 3 weeks. In fact this morning, he woke me up crying, and did a poo as soon as he was in the garden. He is not 100% house trained yet but he is still a baby and still learning. I guess puppies just need time to learn to control there bowels and bladder, and to learn where the right place is to go.

    Alfie's crate is placed in the main living room of the house where everyone congregates. The door of his crate is always open apart from at night and when I have to pop out without him. Alfie loves his crate and recognises it as his own special place. I think it helps having the crate in the main living area as he still feels part of the family. Also, we have never used the crate as punishment so that all his experiences of the crate are pleasant.

    Good luck with your little one (she is very cute by the way :)).
     
  11. jamesmills

    jamesmills PetForums Newbie

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    I'm a bit confused by this statement. Are you asking whether she is either in the pen or outside trying to go to the toilet? As in, she only comes out of the pen to go to the toilet? If so, then obviously not! She only goes in the pen to sleep. As we are trying to get her used to the pen so she feels it is her safe place, she has also been spending short bursts of time in there during the day. But these are interspersed with plenty of time out playing etc. We are trying to use basic classical conditioning to get her used to the pen, we leave it open and if she takes herself in she gets praised for it.

    Thanks for the replies everyone, it is really useful to hear your experiences and advice.
     
  12. lynn9994

    lynn9994 PetForums Junior

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    Sorry if i confused you but thats how it read. Unless you are prepared to let her out in the night and make sure she does go before bed then she will mess in the pen. At least if it was open she would go on the puppy pads:rolleyes:
     
  13. Cuddypuppy

    Cuddypuppy PetForums Member

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    I would highly recommend a crate. We have used a crate (door shut) at night since Nelly came home (2 weeks ago). She is 10 weeks old now. She thankfully has slept through the night and has never messed in her crate. We put her to bed at about 11.00 pm after a trip to the garden for a wee and a poo (Nelly, not us!) and then straight into the crate, door closed and a blankie over the top to keep the light out. For the daytime, she takes herself off to her little fabric dog house style bed because it is dark and private, or she will just go to sleep on the rug. When, I have to leave her, I set up a playpen with some safe toys etc. and the telly on. :)
     
  14. rona

    rona Guest

    In what environment was your puppy reared, is it possible that your pup has never encountered the outside world before coming to you?
    If not then you will have to reeducate her and this will not happen in 4 days
     
  15. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

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    Is it a crate or a pen you have her in?

    When our pups were tiny their mum made a bad job of teaching them to be clean.. So they thought it was ok to mess in the bed.
    Once they got a little older, we had their bed in a crate, and thenhad a pen are with toys, and an area with paper.
    They did poop in the bed before this, but once we set up a place for them to go whenever they needed next to the bed, they learned to be clean.

    From here one for the puppies had a set up alomost identical, and then once he had settled in the new owners started taking him outisde just before the times he usually needed to poop.

    x
     
  16. jamesmills

    jamesmills PetForums Newbie

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    Again some interesting comments and points, again thanks :)

    Molly is slowly starting to do a poo at other times and in other places. Not managed to get her outside yet but there is time. We put her to bed about 22:00 and she did a poo soon after she was left. Again we cleaned and she went to bed. She slept well appart from doing a poo in her pen last night at about 02:30. I may start to come down during the night to see if I can get her to go outside.

    We have another question. We leave Classic FM on for her and also put a nightlight on in the kitchen. I am not sure if this comforts her or not? We read some of you put things over the crate to keep it dark. Would this really keep her asleep in the morning for longer? Maybe we should turn out the nightlight and cover some of the pen.

    We have one of these Fabric Kennel for Cats and Dogs by Coopet-Crates and accessories-Pets at Home: Buy Pet Supplies from our Online UK Pet Shop pens. For us we thought it was better than a cage and better than a box. Its like Molly is camping every night. lol

    Thanks again,

    James & Fiona
     
  17. Hb-mini

    Hb-mini PetForums VIP

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    Hi james and Fiona,

    We picked up our mini schnauzer pup Bella just over a week ago. I have the exact same crate as you.

    For the first week every night she would sleep next to our bed in her crate, front door closed but the top zip left open so i could put my hand in if i needed too.
    She would wake in the night, anywhere between 1-4, i would take her out and she would do a wee, i would then take her straight abck upstairs and put her back, sometimes i would have to hang me hand in there for her to settle, but it didnt take long.

    I always made sure she had gone to the loo before bed, if she cried and i knew she didnt need the loo then i gave a sharp shhh. This worked after a few times.

    It maybe anxiety about being left that makes her poop.

    Try having her upstairs with you for a bit but in her crate, see how she gets on.

    Like someone else asked aswell, what was she doing her business on at the breeders?

    :)
     
  18. Hb-mini

    Hb-mini PetForums VIP

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    Meant to say, she was in our room for a week and now she is down stairs in the kitchen, in her crate still, and sleeps from about 11-6.

    :)
     
  19. Cuddypuppy

    Cuddypuppy PetForums Member

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    That's excellent news! Well done ;)
     
  20. jamesmills

    jamesmills PetForums Newbie

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    Hi everyone,

    Thanks so much for all your helpful comments. We had to adopt a slightly different strategy with Molly, she now sleeps with the door open on her crate in a sectioned off area of a large room. This works much better as she has room to play etc but still goes to sleep in her bed which is in her crate!

    However, we are still having problems with toileting. Molly no longer does it in her bed, but on the floor of the sectioned off area. We could cope with this, except she then tramples it EVERYWHERE! So when we come down early in the morning, the area is covered in her poop!

    Also, she will very rarely poop outside. She has a couple of times but mainly it's inside. She has even been known to go inside to poop and then come back outside. She clearly has all her associations back to front. We are using positive reinforcement techniques and all the classical conditioning that people talk about but none of it is working for molly. Does anyone have any advice for us? Please? I'm starting to feel pretty desperate now!

    Thanks! x
     
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