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Clicker training an HPR to quarter

Discussion in 'Gundogs & Gundog Training' started by Redice, Sep 9, 2013.


  1. Redice

    Redice PetForums Senior

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    My clicker trained dog is doing well with his directional retrieves on land and water, blind, seen and memory. I now want to teach him to hunt and quarter as I am considering entering GWTs. How have you found the best way to teach it?
     
  2. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    Have you got Helen Phillips book? Clicker Gundog?
     
  3. Redice

    Redice PetForums Senior

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    I have got that book but found the hunting part of it quite confusing.
     
  4. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    Maybe it might be an idea to go on one of her courses or join her FB group?
     
  5. Redice

    Redice PetForums Senior

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    I didnt know she had a Facebook group, thank you. Clicker Gundog trainers seem very few and far between. I have been going to a Traditional Gundog trainer for 1-1 lessons and he gives me excercises that I then turn into a clicker trained excercise but just can't think of the best way to do the hunting/quartering bit.
     
  6. Empeb

    Empeb PetForums Newbie

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    Get rid of your clicker, you wont be able to use at a working test so train to reality and how you would need to do it at a test.
    Im sorry to say but of you asked any well respected trainer in the gun dog world about clicker training they would laugh at you, sorry.
    You need an HPR trainer to get the best from your dog, as they hunt differently to spaniels etc.
    you need the dog focussed on you.
    decide where the wind is, set the dog off, if you need to walk a bit with them to direct them then do so, let them quarter the field and you pip them back to turn and cover the other side, difficult to explain really.
     
  7. Redice

    Redice PetForums Senior

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    I wouldn't use a clicker in a test. It is used for teaching new behaviours and not needed once those behaviours are totally understood. The book by Helen Philips that smokeybear refers to is a well respected trainer who trains by clicker, she works her own dogs on shoots very sucessfully and teaches here and abroad so have no doubts about clicker training being a sucessful way to teach and is the way I prefer.
     
  8. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    Really? Evidently Phillipa Williams is not a well respected trainer in the gundog world then............... ;)

    They laughed when they said the world was round.

    If you choose not to use the cliker that is up to you, please do not denigrate the system that works very well for many people.

    There are many people who are at the top of their game nationally and at world level in many disciplines that have clicker trained their dogs and NONE of them allow the use of clickers under test.

    Go figure! ;)
     
  9. rona

    rona Still missing my boys

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    :confused: :confused: :confused:

    Clicker training for Gundogs
     
  10. Empeb

    Empeb PetForums Newbie

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    there is no need to be so rude, everyone is allowed their own opinion whether you agree or not.
    Having competed in working tests and shoot with my dogs, I personally prefer to train how it would be in reality, why use something that you wont be using continually? MY OPINION

    And we obviously mix in very different gun dog circles as the high up well respected trainers that I know would not use a clicker for the working test training, maybe the basic low lever training but not more advance training.

    I am leaving this post now as you are so rude to some ones opinion, advice was asked for and given so then don't diss what was given to you, I just wont bother anymore and enjoy your clicker
     
  11. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    I will not get into a willie measuring contest with you regarding "high up well respected trainers" because it would really be a walkover love.

    And how many Open Tests have you won?

    How many Field Trials have you entered and gained a CoM etc, let alone been placed or won?

    (As you appear to know so much about "advanced training") ;)

    What breed do you work?

    The only person guilty of "dissing" anyone on this thread is you. ;)

    If you do not like the clicker, that is fine.

    If you do not wish to use it, that is your prerogative.

    But making sweeping generalisations that do not stand up to scrutiny only reveals your lack of skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience.
     
  12. sueh83

    sueh83 PetForums Member

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    Have used clicker for non-gundog training on both of my dogs in the past with good success
    Struggle to think how you would use it for hunting though. My youngster is anywhere from 50-300yrds away when hunting and don't think a clicker would have helped in training for those distances.
    This is the first dog I have trained for gundog work and did have guidance from a professional trainer before I started. All the training has been carried out using whistle, body language and verbal encouragement. I want the dog to hunt and cover the ground effectively. This does not mean I always get the pretty pattern as seen in the books.
     
  13. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    That is why there are books and trainers out there to help teach people how to use the clicker for hunting. ;)

    Clicker training can be used at great distances, it works for dolphins and seals when they go out to sea to put mines on ships! ;)

    They go out a little further than any HPR is required to. :) :)

    Again, you are focusing on the TOOL not the SYSTEM. ;)
     
    #13 smokeybear, Sep 15, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  14. rona

    rona Still missing my boys

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    I actually agree with the fact that incorporating clicker into more advanced gundog training would be difficult, but even though I'm not a fan of clicker, I can see how it could be used to good effect in the basics and groundwork of gundog training.
     
  15. rona

    rona Still missing my boys

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    So the clicker has just replaced the whistle?

    The training can still be positive using a whistle.

    Not rocket science to train a dog with kindness. I and many others have been doing it for decades
     
    #15 rona, Sep 15, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  16. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    Er no, the clicker does not replace the whistle. Again that demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge regarding clicker training.

    A whistle is a "cue" (the same way a verbal cue is used or a hand signal)

    The clicker is a "secondary reinforcer" totally different. ;)

    Nobody has said that whistle training cannot be positive, that is not what is being debated.

    Many people have been clicker training for decades too. ;)
     
  17. sueh83

    sueh83 PetForums Member

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    I can see how clicker could be used to reinforce the quartering pattern that would give you the dog running Left-right, right to left, turning into the wind etc but stuggle to grasp how the clicker can help teach the drive and passion to hunt.
    Fair play if it can be done, though.
     
  18. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    No system I know can help teach the drive and passion to hunt (or any other genetic trait) such as shepherding etc.

    You can use a lot of systems to help a dog reach its genetic potential, and optimise it, but there is not system that can help it supersede its genetic potential. ;)

    Your dog either has the drive and passion which you can direct or it does not. :)
     
  19. rona

    rona Still missing my boys

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    The whistle doesn't have to be a cue you know?

    It's what you make it. The dog doesn't know the difference between a whistle and a clicker
     
  20. ouesi

    ouesi Guest

    True, a clicker can be a cue and a whistle can be a secondary reinforcer. But how the whistle is used in hunting is as a cue. It's a signal to the dog to DO a behavior. A click in clicker training is a signal to the dog that the behavior he has done is the right one and a reward is forthcoming. Hence, secondary reinforcer.

    Cue = comes BEFORE the behavior.
    Click (or whatever your secondary reinforcer is going to be) = comes AFTER the behavior.
     
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