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Can I go partially Raw - is that better than nothing?

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by GirlWithAChakram, May 8, 2017.


  1. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    I rescued two Ragdolls in Jan after loosing my regular cat due to a uriny infection. Because of that I am a bit paranoid about the dry feeding and done a bit of research and it seems dry feeding isnt very good for them.
    I guess what Im asking is - Is it just as simple as chopping up raw chicken breast / mince next time im using it and hiding some in their wet feed? If so the next step after that would be premade raw diets but does anyone know a company that delivers in Scotland?
    Sorry Im pretty new to this but want to do the best by my cats.
     

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  2. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. Banned

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    So you are considering raw feeding that's great news. I will try not to blow your mind to much.
    Personally I feed raw chunks and premix simply because my cat won't eat bones. The premix I use is EZComplete (Food Fur Life sell this) from the USA (suitable for cats at all life stages). There are two Premixes you can get from Germany called Felini Complete (Zooplus sell this) and TCFeline (Tatzenladen sell this). I mix EZComplete premix with raw chunks of meat and water. Adding a premix to boneless raw chunks of meat means you do not have to add anything else to this.

    The other option you have is minced complete frozen commercial raw meals from Natural Instinct, Nutriment or Kiezebrink all in the UK and do home deliveries. You do not need to add anything to these as they are complete and contain ground up bone as well. Not all cats like minced raw food so don't be surprised if they don't eat it if you go for this method.

    The other option is to make your own home made raw cat meals and there are some recipe available on here and online. This isn't easy unless you know what you are doing as it isn't as simple as just giving you cat a raw chunks of meat and the formula used to make homemade raw food diets for cats is 80% meat, 10% bone, 3-5% liver (no more than this), and 5-8% offal (not liver as it has already been added).

    The last option is whole prey (which does not need anything adding to it as it is whole mice, day old chicks etc) available from Kiezebrink.

    You may want to read up on raw feeding here:
    http://catinfo.org
    http://feline-nutrition.org

    Cats take time to transition across onto a new diet by the way and it is important to do the transition slowly. If you decide to feed raw chunks of meat do it as a treat at first say once or twice a week feeding small amounts and slowly build this up to a full meal and feed more regularly during the week after they are at a full meal of raw meat chunks. You can introduce the premix at any stage when they are eating a full raw meal but if you are only feeding raw food as a treat once or twice a week there is no need to at this stage. Do not rush your cats with introducing new food, there is nothing wrong with withdrawing the raw meat chunks if they won't eat it and giving them there normal food, you haven't failed just try again a few days later or the following week. You will get wastage as in they won't eat it when introducing new food. The raw meat I find acceptable under any circumstances in my household is boneless raw lambs leg chunks that I buy from the supermarket so this in my opinion would be a good starting point.

    Hope this helps and I hope I haven't blown your mind to much?
     
    #2 stockwellcat., May 8, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2017
  3. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. Banned

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    Sorry I just wanted to add you can just feed boneless raw chunks of meat with no premix if you feed them a raw meal once or twice a week. I would place the raw meat in a separate bowl next to there normal food when starting out. Others may introduce raw meat differently but this is how I would do it :)

    I don't know if the commercial raw food companies above that I mentioned will deliver to Scotland.

    Are you looking to transition them onto a full time raw food diet eventually?
     
    #3 stockwellcat., May 8, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2017
  4. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    Well ideally id like to move them onto that diet eventually but I'm a bit scared that this is all a bit too good to be true and I accidently do some damage. It almost seems like a fad diet for cats and while i would take the risk myself im more protective of my cats health thsn mines lol Im also a bit put off by the crushing of bones side of things!
    Thanks for your help explaining though because it sounds like a premix might be my ideal solution to give it a go. Then when ive gained a bit more knowledge i can ask my butcher about making me a mix. Hopefully my big ragdoll boy will look less raggy soon!
     
  5. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    Ill investigate the commercial companies delivery and while doing that work them up to one raw meal a week.
     
  6. Babyshoes

    Babyshoes PetForums Senior

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    What food are they currently eating?

    I found when introducing raw that it helped to feed a few chunks by hand, as you would a treat.

    I did try a day old chick once, since I give them to the ferrets. It got eaten eventually, but I had to close him in the kitchen & mop the floor afterwards, as he played with it for ages!

    I feed a partial raw diet, about 5 meals a week, just supermarket special offers etc, or chunks taken off a roast before I cook it. I figure that if his main meals are a complete commercial wet food, there won't be a need to supplement for that amount, but if you wanted to there's no reason not too either. I believe there's a powder you sprinkle on the raw.
     
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  7. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    That sounds ideal - just giving them a bit of what we are having for dinner. Is there a reason that its better to give them it raw rather than cooked as we would for ourself?
     
  8. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    And i was feeding Felix in jelly 3 1/2 poiches a day but found they were eating the gravey and not eating the chuncks so have been trying them on a few different Pate's. Trying morrisons own at the moment but its hit or miss whether the eat the full bowl or just pick. Then i top them up with go cat dry food so the can nibble between their wet meals - 8am, 4pm, 10pm. But ive bought some cold meat to give to them this week for some treats and to cut some of the dry out as i think that seems to be the really scary part of the diet isnt it?
     
  9. kittih

    kittih PetForums VIP

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    I think cooked meat can lose some nutrition compared to raw. My boy won't eat raw but will eat cooked meat I add an additive to it (in my case felini complete but there are others) to insure that taurine as well as all the necessary minerals and vitamins are present.

    Be careful when giving human pre-cooked meats like ham chicken beef etc as many have added salt.
     
    #9 kittih, May 9, 2017
    Last edited: May 9, 2017
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  10. Babyshoes

    Babyshoes PetForums Senior

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    No reason they can't have some cooked meat too, but be careful with things like leftovers & cured or processed meats like ham, bacon, sausage etc, as they generally contain too much salt to feed regularly. If I have leftover roast meat, I will sometimes feed Macavity bits from the middle section to avoid the salty edges.

    If you'd feel more comfortable cooking the chunks of meat, a gentle simmer in a little water will be fine (can also use the microwave) - serve cool (not cold) with the water. I think raw is preferred as it's just more natural, and I would guess that some nutrients might be changed by the cooking process.

    The main concern with dry food is the simple fact that it's dry & cats are unlikely to drink enough water, as they've evolved to get most of their fluids from their prey. This leads to a constant state of slight dehydration and resulting potential kidney issues. The second issue is that they contain a lot of carbohydrate, which cats don't need at all, they are empty calories. Dry fed cats are apparently more likely to have weight issues.

    Cheap wet foods like Felix, whiskas, Sheba & supermarket versions tend to have sugar (bad) & at least some carbs too. Although they are better than dry in terms of kidney function, they are still not great nutritionally. In the same price range from the supermarket, Butchers classic tins are better as they don't have sugars & carbs. The quality of "meat" and animal derivatives they use is probably awful, but no worse than the other cheap ones I suspect. The chunks are soft & can be slightly mashed to reduce the chance to just eat the jelly around them. I'd suggest it might be worth a try for you - they are generally about £3 for a pack of 6 tins and come in a meaty or fishy mix.

    There are of course much better quality wet foods available, some of which I use in rotation too. Regular meat & pre-processed raw generally seem to work out cheaper by weight though!
     
  11. Jackie C

    Jackie C Cat slave

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    I was, at first, concerned about giving my cat raw, as I wanted to make sure I was doing it right, but it's easier than you think. But I can understand your concerns.
    I feed mostly raw, but it depends on what Her Majesty fancies.
    I mix beef mince, turkey mince, bit of pork and stewing beef together and add the "felini" to it and mix it in to the right quantity. I then freeze it in 100g bags. Be aware, that meat is very compact and dense, and with the added felini (or whatever you decide to use), has more nutrition, so the cat needs to eat physically less to get her nutrition and calories. My Holly is putting on weight, as I've been giving her too much, so I've had to cut back!

    This is the felini I use. It's easy. http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/cats/supplements_specialty_cat_food/vitamins/155860
     
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  12. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    Thanks very much for your help guys. My girl is very tubby and shes short haired so i think my bigger boy with the long hair might be needing an extra feed with her locked away somewhere as i imagine his coat will need more maintanence. My pets at home seems to have Natures menu in stock - Would you reccommend trying that as a high quality cat food twice a day breakfast / supper with a raw meal for dinner at 4? For raw I was thinking of buying thar feline and mixing it with beef mince/chicken breast and turkey mince as those three proteins should be readily available (the first two from my freezer lol!)?
     
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  13. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    So is 100g what you would feed your cat for one day? Is she a big cat?
     
  14. kittih

    kittih PetForums VIP

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    Nature's menu has a feeding calculator on their websites maybe start with that and adjust according to how much your cat eats and whether she gains, loses or maintains weight.
     
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  15. Jackie C

    Jackie C Cat slave

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    No, she's quite petite, although maybe just slightly under average for a female. She was 3.6kg in January, just shortly after we rescued her, although she's put on weight, I still think she's under 4kg (I don't think she's over weight, but I am having to reduced her intake slightly, as I don't want her to gain any more.)

    Recommended amounts of raw meat is 2 to 3% of cats body weight in 24hrs.
     
  16. urbantigers

    urbantigers PetForums VIP

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    I feed raw with Felini too. At first I intended to just feed some raw meals (nothing wrong with that) but it's so easy and they love it so much that I feed almost completely raw, with just the occasional meal of tinned wet food. I feed mostly turkey, pork and lamb from the butcher or supermarket because it's readily available. For some reason, Kito will not touch raw beef. He has eaten beef tinned food (stuff that's pure beef) but won't touch raw beef and Mosi hasn't tried it yet because he's on an elimination diet and beef is not on the menu yet. I feed some pre-made raw but it's mainly mince or pieces with Felini. I feed 3 meals a day of about 45g each (if I buy a 500g pack of mince I divide it into 11 meals) and that seems to be about right for both of mine. Kito has a chicken wing for a meal about every 5 days. Mosi weighs 4.4kg although he lost a bit a couple of years ago when he had a dental and wouldn't eat afterwards and then had digestive issues - every time he had poo problems he'd lose a bit - so I was happy when he went to the vet recently to find he was back to what is his normal weight. Kito weighs 5 kg and he has the same amount. I sense he could be prone to weight gain given the chance as he's a greedy so and so and just strikes me as a cat who gains weight easily, but he's just right on that amounts of food. It did take us all a while to adapt to smaller portions though. They are both indoor cats.
     
    #16 urbantigers, May 11, 2017
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
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  17. GirlWithAChakram

    GirlWithAChakram PetForums Junior

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    Thanks guys I got a good deal with someone selling some
    Almo Nature Legend Kitten Chicken Cat Food 24x 70g
    So going to give that a go to fatten him up a bit. Im going to order the felini product and mix it into the food and then start to introduce one raw meal a day and see if i can transition them onto it fully after a while. Ill keep you all.posted!
     
  18. kittih

    kittih PetForums VIP

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    Just curious...Why do you need to add the felini complete ? The almo website says the kitten version is a complete food.
     
  19. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. Banned

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    You don't need to add Felini Complete to this only to raw meat. You should never add the Felini Complete to a complete kitten/cat food as it will imbalance it and could be dangerous. Felini Complete is for boneless raw chunks of meat only. What you have purchased above is a complete kitten food not raw.
     
    #19 stockwellcat., May 11, 2017
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  20. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. Banned

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    Just wanted to add if a food says complete on it you should not add any premixes, vitamins etc to it. You should not add Premixes, vitamins etc to complimentary cat food either (I wouldn't buy complimentary cat food as it isn't a complete food).

    The premixes are only designed for raw boneless chunks of meat or ground up meat with nothing else in it like ground up pork or lamb from the supermarket.
     
    #20 stockwellcat., May 11, 2017
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