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Can Doberman's be legally docked?

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by PoisonGirl, Jun 29, 2009.


  1. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

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    I thought the ban of docking meant that only working dogs can be docked and only if you have a certificate or whatever proving they are going to be worked?
    Do dobermans come into this atall?

    x
     
  2. DKDREAM

    DKDREAM PetForums VIP

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    Im not sure have you tried googling it?
     
  3. Nicci

    Nicci Guest

    No they can't.
     
  4. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

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    I found something that says this on the dobermann club

    So does that mean this Preloved | dobermann puppies for sale in Stranraer, Dumfries & Galloway, UK is pk or what?? Sorry, bit tired.

    x
     
  5. SpringerHusky

    SpringerHusky PetForums VIP

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    There is a way, they impregnate the bitch take her over to ireland, birth the puppies there and dock 'em there then bring 'em back to the uk.

    Only proven working dogs can be docked.
     
  6. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

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    Well I have reported it. Even if the puppies are imported, Preloved state in their guidlines they will not advertise dogs docked after the banned date, even dogs born outised england and wales. Somone obviously wasn't reading properly when they approved that add! Lol

    x
     
  7. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    I am sure that loads of litters are still docked by breeders and wanted by potential new owners. I am not sure anything will ever be done about it either. What happens about showing them though, if the dog works then presumably it can be shown docked and as most breeders and show people will prefer docked breeds to be docked is there still going to be loopholes so that most of the show dogs will be docked. Are judges still preferring docked dogs too.
    there are too many daft laws that will never be adhered to, I do wish the government would think about how they are going to be policed before making them.
     
  8. venus

    venus PetForums Junior

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    i maybe wrong but as far as showing goes i think they can only be entered in shows where the general public don't pay, so if they where docked after the ban was enforced then they can't go to say crufts.
     
  9. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    Tail Docking in the UK as at 6 April 2007 that seems to lay it out fairly well. It looks like it would be very easy to get the relevant paperwork so that the vet is allowed to dock a litter BUT they then would not be able to be shown which is interesting. So no more dual champions by the looks of it.
     
  10. rona

    rona Guest

    I saw a docked Dob pup last week :(
     
  11. Ty-bo

    Ty-bo PetForums Senior

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    At the local morrisons the other day I saw what was either a pit bull or american bulldog with CROPPED EARS :incazzato: :yikes:

    have also seen several ads for pit bulls for sale lately :(
     
  12. Domoniques

    Domoniques PetForums Senior

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    Hi
    The ad is still on could you find out if he has an affix he has gone to the trouble of phpv and vWD but wont be able to show them here in the uk .
     
  13. tinamary

    tinamary PetForums VIP

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    I saw a docked terrier pup at training last week
     
  14. PoisonGirl

    PoisonGirl Banned

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    I got this reply from Preloved thismorning

    xx
     
  15. reddogs

    reddogs PetForums Senior

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    Remember there are different rules in England, Scotland, Wales and NI regarding the showing of docked dogs
     
  16. fluffybunny2001

    fluffybunny2001 PetForums VIP

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    weve had at least 5 rottie pups at our centre in the last year with docked tails
     
  17. reddogs

    reddogs PetForums Senior

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    My friend has 2 docked rotties - she got a call from a farmer who couldn't sell his litter last year so got them all rehomed
     
  18. ADA

    ADA PetForums Junior

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    DOCKING - Removal of dogs' tails is banned in England (6th April 2007), Wales (28th March 2007) - excluding therapeutic and for certain truly working breeds governed by regulation (see below). Dogs born after 6th April 2007 cannot be shown with docked tails at public fee paying shows in England and Wales but can be in Scotland.

    Scotland - tail docking except for therapeutic reasons has been banned in Scotland as from 30th April, 2007. They cannot be taken across borders to be docked. Dogs in whelp taken across borders could be subject to the Council Regulation (EC) no 1/2005.

    N. IRELAND – No change as yet from previous legislation where only Veterinary Surgeons may dock.

    REGULATIONS:-

    ENGLAND - The regulations for truly WORKING dog exemptions as from 6th April 2007 (although some may be found not to be suitable for work later) are Terriers and their crossbreeds, Spaniels and their crossbreeds and HPRs. This does not apply to dogs bred as pets.

    Anyone who is cruel to an animal, or does not provide for its welfare needs, may be banned from owning animals, fined up to £20,000 and/or sent to prison.
    Animal Welfare Act 2006 (c. 45)
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/en/ukpgaen_20060045_en.pdf
    Animal Welfare Act 2006 - end
    There seems to be a consensus that they must be reviewed between 2 and 5 years.

    NB 8) A person commits an offence if— (a) he owns a subsection (3) dog, and (b) fails to take reasonable steps to secure that, before the dog is 3 months old, it is identified as a subsection (3) dog in accordance with regulations made by the appropriate national authority.
    Explanatory note:-
    31. Subsection (8) requires a person who owns a dog which was legitimately docked by a Vet to ensure that the dog is identified as having been legally docked. The owner will commit an offence if he does not take reasonable steps to ensure that his docked dog is so identified
    Subsection (13)(b) allows the appropriate national authority to make regulations about the method of identification required, e.g. micro-chipping .

    WALES - The list of truly working dog breeds exempted and as amended in the Welsh Plenary as from 28th March 2007 (although some may be found not to be suitable for work later) is now as follows:
    Spaniels: of only the following breeds will be eligible English Springer Spaniel; Welsh Springer Spaniel; Cocker Spaniel, but not combinations of breeds and

    Terriers of only the following breeds will be eligible Jack Russell Terrier, Cairn Terrier (normally undocked!) Lakeland Terrier, Norfolk Terrier - but not combinations of breeds.
    This does not apply to dogs bred as pets.
    The HPR breeds remain as originally drafted. Bracco Italiano; Brittany; German Long-haired Pointer; German Wire-haired Pointer; Hungarian Vizsla; Hungarian Wire-Haried Vizsla; Italian Spinone; Spanish Water Dog; Weimaraner; Korthals Griffon; Slovakian Rough-Haired Pointer; Large Munsterlander; Small Munsterlander. This does not apply to dogs bred as pets.

    http://new.wales.gov.uk/topics/envi...animalwelfare/taildockingregulations/?lang=en
    Certificate required http://new.wales.gov.uk/depc/1382175/1519627/DOC_1_CERTIFICATE_ENGLISH_11.pdf?lang=en
    The Minister at the time the regulations were set, Mr Carwyn Jones AM, made a commitment in Plenary to review the Docking of Working Dogs’ Tails (Wales) Regulations in 2 years.

    Puppies presented for docking to the Vet as truly WORKING dogs can only be docked at the discretion of the Vet.

    A person commits an offence if he shows a dog at an event to which members of the public are admitted on payment of a fee (England and Wales), also see these relevant DEFRA links:-

    The Docking of Working Dogs’ Tails (England) Regulations 2007 No. 1120
    Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Animal Welfare Act
    Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Draft Animal Welfare Bill - Circus Welfare Working Group

    SCOTLAND - The Animal Welfare Act bans certain "mutilations" which includes docking as from 30th April 2007 and no dog can be docked in Scotland. A person commits an offence if the person takes a protected animal, or causes a protected animal to be taken, from a place in Scotland for the purpose of having a prohibited procedure carried out on the animal at a place outwith Scotland. A review may be done later. We approve of this legislation.

    If dogs (in whelp) are to be taken from Scotland for the purpose of having the tails of their puppies docked, to be then brought back to Scotland for sale, it is likely that the courts would consider this to be a journey in connection with an economic activity. As a consequence the provision of Council Regulation (EC) no 1/2005 on the protection of animals during transport would apply. The significance of this Regulation is that the animals must be "fit to travel" and Chapter 1 of Annex 1 of the Regulation states that pregnant female for whom 90% or more of the expected gestation period has already passed and females who have given birth in the previous week are not considered fit for transport. Thus if a dog were to be taken from Scotland to give birth, she would need to make the journey at least 6 days before the expected date of the birth and could not be transported back for 7 days following the birth.

    Scotland has not banned the showing of docked dogs. The penalty for docking a dog's tail will be a fine of up to £5,000 and/or six months imprisonment. see this link for the complete Act:-

    Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006 (asp 11)
    The only people who can prosecute an alleged offence under the Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006 are the Procurators Fiscal (PF). The police, local authorities, Scottish SPCA and Animal Health (the new name for the State Veterinary Service) officials can all inspect and investigate alleged offences. These inspectors report to the PF who decide whether to prosecute. The PF service is totally independent of the police and the Scottish Executive.

    Whilst there are new powers available to local authority inspectors in the Act in relation to animal welfare, there is no obligation on local authorities to use these powers. The government expects that many of the new powers will help inspectors carry out their existing duties more effectively, with an extra focus on prevention of suffering before it occurs. Inspectors are those persons with responsibility for animal welfare appointed under section 51 of the Act by either a local authority or, in England, the Secretary of State. This includes Animal Health officers.

    Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Animal Welfare Act

    Cases should be reported to the breeder’s Local Authority AND ALSO to the RSPCA's cruelty and advice line : 0300 1234 999

    To show a dog with a naturally foreshortened tail or a therapeutic amputation after the dates of the Act(s) it is necessary to apply to the Kennel Club for permission to show accompanied by a Veterinarian's certificate.

    http://i-dockingalliance.co.uk
    Dobermanns, Boxers, Rottweilers etc are not breeds listed under the Animal Welfare Act exemptions in England and Wales and cannot be docked in Scotland.
     
  19. ADA

    ADA PetForums Junior

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
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    28
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    1
    DOCKING - Removal of dogs' tails is banned in England (6th April 2007), Wales (28th March 2007) - excluding therapeutic and for certain truly working breeds governed by regulation (see below). Dogs born after 6th April 2007 cannot be shown with docked tails at public fee paying shows in England and Wales but can be in Scotland.

    Scotland - tail docking except for therapeutic reasons has been banned in Scotland as from 30th April, 2007. They cannot be taken across borders to be docked. Dogs in whelp taken across borders could be subject to the Council Regulation (EC) no 1/2005.

    N. IRELAND – No change as yet from previous legislation where only Veterinary Surgeons may dock.

    REGULATIONS:-

    ENGLAND - The regulations for truly WORKING dog exemptions as from 6th April 2007 (although some may be found not to be suitable for work later) are Terriers and their crossbreeds, Spaniels and their crossbreeds and HPRs. This does not apply to dogs bred as pets.

    Anyone who is cruel to an animal, or does not provide for its welfare needs, may be banned from owning animals, fined up to £20,000 and/or sent to prison.
    Animal Welfare Act 2006 (c. 45)
    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/en/ukpgaen_20060045_en.pdf
    Animal Welfare Act 2006 - end
    There seems to be a consensus that they must be reviewed between 2 and 5 years.

    NB 8) A person commits an offence if— (a) he owns a subsection (3) dog, and (b) fails to take reasonable steps to secure that, before the dog is 3 months old, it is identified as a subsection (3) dog in accordance with regulations made by the appropriate national authority.
    Explanatory note:-
    31. Subsection (8) requires a person who owns a dog which was legitimately docked by a Vet to ensure that the dog is identified as having been legally docked. The owner will commit an offence if he does not take reasonable steps to ensure that his docked dog is so identified
    Subsection (13)(b) allows the appropriate national authority to make regulations about the method of identification required, e.g. micro-chipping .

    WALES - The list of truly working dog breeds exempted and as amended in the Welsh Plenary as from 28th March 2007 (although some may be found not to be suitable for work later) is now as follows:
    Spaniels: of only the following breeds will be eligible English Springer Spaniel; Welsh Springer Spaniel; Cocker Spaniel, but not combinations of breeds and

    Terriers of only the following breeds will be eligible Jack Russell Terrier, Cairn Terrier (normally undocked!) Lakeland Terrier, Norfolk Terrier - but not combinations of breeds.
    This does not apply to dogs bred as pets.
    The HPR breeds remain as originally drafted. Bracco Italiano; Brittany; German Long-haired Pointer; German Wire-haired Pointer; Hungarian Vizsla; Hungarian Wire-Haried Vizsla; Italian Spinone; Spanish Water Dog; Weimaraner; Korthals Griffon; Slovakian Rough-Haired Pointer; Large Munsterlander; Small Munsterlander. This does not apply to dogs bred as pets.

    http://new.wales.gov.uk/topics/envi...animalwelfare/taildockingregulations/?lang=en
    Certificate required http://new.wales.gov.uk/depc/1382175/1519627/DOC_1_CERTIFICATE_ENGLISH_11.pdf?lang=en
    The Minister at the time the regulations were set, Mr Carwyn Jones AM, made a commitment in Plenary to review the Docking of Working Dogs’ Tails (Wales) Regulations in 2 years.

    Puppies presented for docking to the Vet as truly WORKING dogs can only be docked at the discretion of the Vet.

    A person commits an offence if he shows a dog at an event to which members of the public are admitted on payment of a fee (England and Wales), also see these relevant DEFRA links:-

    The Docking of Working Dogs’ Tails (England) Regulations 2007 No. 1120
    Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Animal Welfare Act
    Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Draft Animal Welfare Bill - Circus Welfare Working Group

    SCOTLAND - The Animal Welfare Act bans certain "mutilations" which includes docking as from 30th April 2007 and no dog can be docked in Scotland. A person commits an offence if the person takes a protected animal, or causes a protected animal to be taken, from a place in Scotland for the purpose of having a prohibited procedure carried out on the animal at a place outwith Scotland. A review may be done later. We approve of this legislation.

    If dogs (in whelp) are to be taken from Scotland for the purpose of having the tails of their puppies docked, to be then brought back to Scotland for sale, it is likely that the courts would consider this to be a journey in connection with an economic activity. As a consequence the provision of Council Regulation (EC) no 1/2005 on the protection of animals during transport would apply. The significance of this Regulation is that the animals must be "fit to travel" and Chapter 1 of Annex 1 of the Regulation states that pregnant female for whom 90% or more of the expected gestation period has already passed and females who have given birth in the previous week are not considered fit for transport. Thus if a dog were to be taken from Scotland to give birth, she would need to make the journey at least 6 days before the expected date of the birth and could not be transported back for 7 days following the birth.

    Scotland has not banned the showing of docked dogs. The penalty for docking a dog's tail will be a fine of up to £5,000 and/or six months imprisonment. see this link for the complete Act:-

    Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006 (asp 11)
    The only people who can prosecute an alleged offence under the Animal Health and Welfare (Scotland) Act 2006 are the Procurators Fiscal (PF). The police, local authorities, Scottish SPCA and Animal Health (the new name for the State Veterinary Service) officials can all inspect and investigate alleged offences. These inspectors report to the PF who decide whether to prosecute. The PF service is totally independent of the police and the Scottish Executive.

    Whilst there are new powers available to local authority inspectors in the Act in relation to animal welfare, there is no obligation on local authorities to use these powers. The government expects that many of the new powers will help inspectors carry out their existing duties more effectively, with an extra focus on prevention of suffering before it occurs. Inspectors are those persons with responsibility for animal welfare appointed under section 51 of the Act by either a local authority or, in England, the Secretary of State. This includes Animal Health officers.

    Defra, UK - Animal Health and Welfare - Animal Welfare - Animal Welfare Act

    Cases should be reported to the breeder’s Local Authority AND ALSO to the RSPCA's cruelty and advice line : 0300 1234 999

    To show a dog with a naturally foreshortened tail or a therapeutic amputation after the dates of the Act(s) it is necessary to apply to the Kennel Club for permission to show accompanied by a Veterinarian's certificate.

    http://i-dockingalliance.co.uk
    Dobermanns, Boxers, Rottweilers etc are not breeds listed under the Animal Welfare Act exemptions in England and Wales and cannot be docked in Scotland.
     
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