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Brexit........ anyone want to talk about it?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JANICE199, Aug 21, 2018.


  1. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    It's not that hard ...

    Glossary
    Capping
    The 2013 reform of the Common Agricultural Policy granted member states the option to ʽcap,ʼ i.e. to limit, the amount of the Basic Payment that any farmer receives. The funds ʽsavedʼ under this mechanism stay in the member state concerned and are transferred to the Rural Development envelope. Capping is voluntary for member states and is a specific application of degressivity (see: Modulation, Transfers between pillars).​

    https://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/glossary/capping_en_en

    Someone should tell her!
     
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  2. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    Limit by how much? 5% isn’t it? I think there’s a cap on the cap. You found that in glossary of terms. Where is the actual information?
     
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  3. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Try reading your history ...... you might learn something!

    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/04/anger.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Monday 15th April 2019&utm_content=M

    Anger

    https://brexitcentral.com/securing-...ter-in-a-centuries-old-constitutional-battle/

    Securing Brexit is the latest chapter in a centuries-old constitutional battle

    http://www.politeia.co.uk/sovereign...-international-not-eu-law-by-dr-thomas-grant/

    SOVEREIGNTY NOT SUPPLICANCY:
    BREXIT IS A MATTER OF INTERNATIONAL, NOT EU, LAW
     
  4. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    The netting preventing the birds nesting in Norfolk is being taken down, due to public protest. If the Eu decreed that netting had to be put on those cliffs, the protests would have had no effect and if the council took the netting down, they’d be fined by the Eu and told to put it back, regardless of what the British public thought about it. That’s what a lot of people mean by ‘taking back control’ imo.
     
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  5. AlexPed2393

    AlexPed2393 PetForums VIP

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    I don't think you get the jist of my post one bit.

    I am saying that instead of posting hateful things, or people things deem to be hateful or distasteful, is only giving those that you dislike a platform.

    You are feeding both sides of the hate, it riles up the people that feel they are getting the mickey taken out of them, and it also riles up the hate from people who have an opposing view point.

    And anyway what does Heseltine's speech have to do with the childish use of Hitler when trying to prove yourself right, as used by several politicians recently.
     
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  6. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    I'm sure a search of the official EU CAP rules would uncover it.

    From what I've seen, the EU have said that the total amount of payments must be reduced by 5%, but that any government can voluntarily choose to cap the payment to an individual at any level they want. 9 EU countries have done so. The UK chose not to do so in England. This from Grauniad a few years back ...

    The UK government could have stopped wealthy landowners including aristocrats and a Saudi racehorse owner receiving hundreds of thousands of pounds from the EU’s common agricultural policy, the European commission has said.

    ... the European commission said in a statement that EU rules allow member states to substantially cut CAP “basic payments” to large landowners, such as most of those cited in the Greenpeace report, by applying a ceiling. Nine countries do so, the commission said, including Britain which applies an upper limit in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, where the funds generated are generally spent on rural development projects. “The UK government chooses not to apply a ceiling in England,” the commission said.
     
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  7. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    The netting preventing the birds nesting in Norfolk is being taken down, due to public protest. If the UK Government decreed that netting had to be put on those cliffs, the protests would have had no effect and if the council took the netting down, they’d be fined by the police and told to put it back, regardless of what the British public thought about it.

    But why would the Government, much less the EU, want to make such a decree?

    Do you have any actual examples of such a situation?
     
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  8. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    Try it. I gave up months ago, maybe it’s more accessible now.

    What about the not basic payments? The payments that encourage poor farming practices and have for years? For the wealthy landowners it’s a drop in the ocean, I think Dyson didn’t even take his. That’s not really the point. It’s what the CAP is for and what it encourages that can be seen as the issue, not whether individual countries give a bit less of it to the richest who get the most.
     
  9. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Here we go again. Far right pro Brexit propaganda sources. I've done my own research thank you very much.

    I also learned much about WWII from my grandparents when they were alive. They served and lived through it so saw it at first hand as so many millions of others did.

    I did click on the links and nearly threw up. May as well have been headed 'BNP'. Jesus!

    No I probably didn't. Despising fascism is not hatred. I don't go round sprouting hatred such as suggesting Brexit supporters should be hung for treason, nor scapegoating certain 'groups' of people as they do. Not even 'hating' all Tories which is evident by sharing the Michael Heseltine link. I've no time to hate anyone actually.

    Yes, I despise Fascism and everything associated with it, Brexit included. History has warned us what this can lead to and to deny the far right aren't using tried and tested methods is remarkably complacent. They don't wear uniform anymore, but come in suits and ties.

    Your comment is akin to the ones about Vote Leave breaking the law, with the response, "Remain broke the law too".

    Sorry, but it's pathetic to try this reflective criticism. I mean me preaching hate for despising Brexit, fascism and nationalism?

    Did those who fought in World War II get accused of promoting hatred by fighting against Nazi Germany? Should countries like the UK have turned the other cheek and let Hitler get on with it?

    If your answer to that is no, why ignore or justify the methods used by the likes of JR-M who happily shared links to a German far right group who commented refugees should be shot, the 'immigrant' hating Farage and SY-L?

    I'm all for love and peace, the fact we've had it for 70 years and 20 years in NI should never be taken for granted.

    I take nothing for granted.
     
    #12429 KittenKong, Apr 15, 2019 at 3:26 PM
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019 at 4:04 PM
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  10. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    Yes, the live transport issue. If the U.K. government wants to do fracking, put up netting, encourage livestock to be transported thousands of miles, we can protest, vote them out, write to our MP. Feel as though we are doing something. The Eu wants it, tough, suck it up.
     
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  11. AlexPed2393

    AlexPed2393 PetForums VIP

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    But if both sides broke the law, what is wrong saying that both sides broke the law? I think we all despise Fascism, but giving fascist comments a platform on a major news network like the BBC, channel 4 and many others do will only fuel and encourage people who are already fascist. Plus it will make others more angry and frustrated that it still exists.

    Just saying it's easier to be calm about things and talk about them in a rational/constructive way, rather than jumping to 100% attack mode at the first sign of disagreement
     
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  12. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    Maybe, but my question was why we didn't apply the voluntary cap on the likes of the Duke and Dyson.

    I have yet to dig much deeper into the CAP though I see that there are reforms proposed for 2020 which I must have a look at. Not that it will bother us much by then.
     
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  13. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    I take it you mean Lammy and Heseltine should have kept their mouths shut as by expressing freedom of speech has only fueled fascism? I stand by their interviews and comments 100%.

    Rather like the saying we must have Brexit to avoid civil unrest.

    When the IRA were active in the '70s and '80s the saying was, "We won't give in to terrorists".

    Certainly, it could be argued that statement could have indeed further fuelled their activities and bombings of mainline England....
     
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  14. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    No, you can do exactly the same thing: protest, cast your vote for someone else (you can't vote someone out unless you have a majority), write to your MEP.

    And I'm still not very well up on the transport thing: they encourage (emphasis on that word) livestock to be transported thousands of miles?
     
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  15. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Aww. Bless their little cotton socks
    :Hilarious

    IMG_20190415_171306.jpg
     
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  16. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    I’ve been trying to get across the point that the British public feels as though it has little to no control over what the Eu does and more over what our own government, MPs and local councils do, for the past 3 years. I’ve already linked to campaigns and Eu directives over live transport, I’m now tired of it.

    My point isn’t over one specific thing, but overall. The Eu does what the Eu does and one reason people voted to stay in it is because they don’t agree with the Tories and want the Eu to control them. It’s the same thing from the other side. Some might want to leave because they think we have more direct control over our own government bodies than we do the Eu and are concerned that the Eu controls our government and has too much say. Some people might want to remain because they think the Eu can control our government and they like that at the moment, because they don’t like our current government. Some of those think the Eu doesn’t have enough say.

    When they say, but our government will ruin the environment/kill wildlife/spray pesticides/destroy workers’ rights, they are saying that the Eu has control over those things and hence control over our own elected government. We have no idea how the people we elected to govern the country would behave if they weren’t constrained by the Eu then do we? For good or bad.

    In my opinion this is what is meant by taking back control. Not over whether we can already use whatever colour passports, or slightly cap the cap, or control immigration, but having the buck stop with our government, holding them to account and having influence over them. The people of Britain taking back control. As they demonstrated by making the council take down the netting, which if it was there because the Eu and 27 other countries said so, they’d have no say over. Which is demonstrated by people protesting against live exports from their local port, their local council agreeing to ban it and falling foul of the Eu.

    They are just examples, of what can happen when the Eu isn’t interested and when it is. Both examples affect the welfare of other species.
     
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  17. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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  18. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    I think there were stories doing the rounds that the Lisbon treaty contained all sorts of things that would reduce the UK to a historical footnote or something. Nonsense, all of it, but even the most rudimentary research seems to have fallen out of fashion. (Having said that I can't be bothered to look up the details!)
     
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  19. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    I found that a while ago while looking for the cap limit information, and it seemed to me that George hadn't come across it either. It's odd to blame the EU for the £million subsidies to individuals while the national governments have the power to limit them at whatever figure they choose.

    But surely there are many ways in which the EU and the CAP can be improved. Maybe the reforms scheduled for 2020 will make a positive difference.
     
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