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Brexit........ anyone want to talk about it?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JANICE199, Aug 21, 2018.


  1. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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  2. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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  3. kimthecat

    kimthecat PetForums VIP

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    :Hilarious I know Brexit is a serious business but its nice to have a laugh sometimes .
     
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  4. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Today's press release from the European Commission.

    Make of it what you will,


    [​IMG]

    • European Commission - Speech - [Check Against Delivery]
    Speech by Michel Barnier at the plenary session of the European Committee of the Regions
    Brussels, 6 December 2018

    Mr President, dear Karl-Heinz Lambertz,

    Ladies and gentlemen, Presidents, Ministers, Ladies and Gentlemen, Mayors, Members of the European Committee of the Regions,

    On 22 March 2017, I came to speak to you in this forum seven days before the United Kingdom notified its decision to leave the European Union, which initiated this negotiation.

    I told you that Brexit would have a lot of human, social, technical, legal, financial and economic consequences.

    I also told you the determination of the team I lead, under the authority of President Jean-Claude Juncker, and with the expertise of all the Commission services, with the expertise of the Council and the Member States , to reach an agreement on an orderly withdrawal from the United Kingdom and to prepare the new partnership that we will have to build with him.

    And we had discussed the conditions for a successful negotiation, not against the British but with the British:

    • build and maintain the unity of the 27, through transparency and dialogue;
    • to remove as soon as possible the uncertainties created by the British decision to leave the European Union;
    • put things in order: first the withdrawal, which must be organized, and then the future relationship with the United Kingdom.
    Ladies and gentlemen,

    This method that I had exposed to you almost 21 months ago, we held ourselves there.

    Since the beginning of my mission, I have visited two or three times each of the Member States to meet the Government, the National Parliament, the professional organizations and the unions.

    I also had the opportunity to visit several regions, such as Jutland in Denmark, Flanders, Lower Saxony and Northern Ireland.

    We also built this unit in Brussels, within the College of Commissioners, with the Member States, through a hundred meetings at all levels, but also through a close dialogue with the European Parliament and with the other institutions of the European Parliament. 'European Union.

    Together with the Member States and the European Parliament, we have co-constructed this treaty.

    The Committee of the Regions has always been aware of the need for unity and the conditions of this unity: transparency and public debate that allow everyone to express themselves and which allow us to take into account the specificities of each territory.

    With my team, we met in particular with representatives of many European regions, including the outermost regions, to listen and understand their concerns.

    On the basis of this unity, transparency and public debate, we have been able to define our common priorities.

    In the first phase of these negotiations, we were able to settle certain issues that were identified very early on in your Committee, in particular the rights of citizens and the Financial Regulation.

    Throughout this negotiation, we have never aggressively asserted the principles of our Union, such as the integrity of the single market, the indivisibility of the four freedoms and our autonomy of decision.

    And we were able, ultimately , to find a balanced agreement, which, given the difficult circumstances and the complexity of Brexit, is the only and the best. This agreement respects our principles while taking into account the red lines of the United Kingdom. It paves the way for a future ambitious relationship, unprecedented by the breadth of areas of cooperation between us.

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    On Sunday, 25 November, the European Council endorsed our draft withdrawal agreement and approved the political declaration on the framework for our future relationship.

    President Tusk and President Juncker recalled that this was a serious moment for Europe. This is not the time for any celebration because it is a negative negotiation. There is no added value to Brexit.

    But we respect this sovereign choice of the United Kingdom. And the two documents approved ten days ago can limit the negative consequences of Brexit.

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    The withdrawal agreement provides legal certainty for all those who are worried about the consequences of the British decision to leave the European Union.

    I would like to take five illustrations, which answer many of the points you made in your two resolutions on Brexit.

    1) In March 2017, I told you that the rights of citizens were our priority: " Citizens first! ".

    • There are 4.5 million European citizens established UK and British established in the EU.
    • All these citizens, and those who have settled in their country of residence before the end of the transitional period, can continue to reside there, to work there, to study there, to receive allowances, or to bring their families there. .
    2) Brexit poses particular problems in Ireland and Northern Ireland, which directly affect some of your communities and some of you personally.

    • We are committed to do our best, " our Best Endeavors ", to conclude and ratify before 1 st July 2020 a further agreement regulating these issues.
    • But since we are not yet certain about the outcome of the negotiations on this subsequent agreement, and given our common commitment to avoid, in any case, a hard border, we have agreed on a backstop legally operational, which will prevent the return of a hard border, preserve North-South cooperation on the island of Ireland and protect our single market. This backstop , we will do everything to not have to use it.
    • But it is an element of stability, which is part of the continuity of the peace process and which is in the interest of Northern Ireland, as expressed by Northern Ireland companies.
    3) For many of your communities, the budget issue was also a major concern.

    • For the current programming period (2014-2020), we have agreed that all commitments made at 28 will be honored at 28.
    • This provides fiscal stability for your communities, in the European Union as well as in the UK, but also for universities, farmers and businesses in your area, which carry projects funded by the European budget.
    4) Our withdrawal agreement also provides answers to concrete Brexit challenges in many cities and regions in Europe.

    • I am thinking, for example, of the 3,000 geographical indications that protect the work of our farmers or artisans on our territories.
    • Existing geographical indications, such as Parmesan or Scotch whiskey, which are existing intellectual property rights, will be protected by the Withdrawal Agreement until our future relationship provides an equivalent level of protection.
    (5) Finally, the withdrawal agreement provides for a transitional period, requested by the United Kingdom Government, until 31 December 2020, which may be extended only once by mutual agreement between the Union and the United Kingdom, for up to 24 months.

    • During this period, the United Kingdom will retain all the rights and obligations of a Member State, even if it will no longer participate in the Union decision-making process.
    • It will provide the necessary stability for administrations, businesses, and your communities to adapt - once - to the future relationship.
    • And that will allow us to negotiate the details of this future relationship.
    Ladies and gentlemen

    If, as we hope, the withdrawal agreement is ratified by both parties, this negotiation on the future relationship will begin the day after the withdrawal of the United Kingdom on 30 March. The political declaration approved by the European Council sets the framework.

    Given the British decision to leave the European Union and the single market, there will be no status quo ; it will not be business as usual.

    But our mutual interest is that of an ambitious partnership

    • goods, services, digital, mobility of people, transport, public procurement, energy;
    • but also internal security, police and judicial cooperation, and of course foreign policy, defense and many other areas.
    This ambitious partnership, based on a free trade area without a tariff or quota for goods and on a customs regime based on the single customs territory provided for in the withdrawal agreement, will be in the interest of companies on both sides of the market. the Channel.

    It will also have to establish a new fisheries agreement, which should include access to water, reciprocally, as part of the negotiation of our economic relationship. We are committed to the UK to do our best to conclude and ratify the new agreement before 1 st July 2020.

    This partnership, ladies and gentlemen, also responds to three major concerns expressed by the cities and regions you represent.

    • Preserve the economic dynamism of your territories, some of which are very closely linked to trade with the United Kingdom, even if the internal market remains our main common asset.
    • Preserve the conditions of fair competition with the United Kingdom. This is why we have specific obligations to ensure a level playing fieldin social, environmental, tax or state aid.
    • Maintain opportunities for cooperation with British cities, regions or universities.
    On this last point, I think first of all of the regions of Ireland and Northern Ireland, which are part of the PEACE program, whose usefulness I have seen as European Commissioner for Regional Policy.

    In our political declaration, we pledge to continue this initiative, in the form of a PEACE PLUS program, which will maintain funding in their current proportions.

    In addition to the specific case of this PEACE PLUS program, the United Kingdom will of course continue to participate in Union programs open to third countries.

    • This will be particularly the case for the programs in the fields of science and innovation (Horizon Europe), youth, culture and education (Erasmus) and civil protection, which concern many of your regions.
    • This will also be the case for interregional cooperation, through the INTERREG program, which the Commission has proposed to open to third countries for the next programming period.
    • Obviously, the United Kingdom will be able to participate in these programs according to the conditions applicable to third countries, defined by the European Union, by paying a fair financial contribution.
    We have also planned for dialogue and exchanges in areas of common interest, such as science and innovation. Your territories will have their place in these dialogues and may take the initiative to cooperate or dialogue with British cities and regions.

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    As soon as possible after the UK has become a third country, we will be ready to launch this negotiation for an unprecedented partnership by the extent and number of cooperation topics.

    A partnership that will give cities and regions their place, and which, in some member states, will have to be ratified by some regional parliaments, alongside national parliaments, some of whose chambers represent the regions.

    But before that, it remains a decisive step, that of the ratification of our withdrawal agreement.

    Without ratification, there will be no withdrawal agreement or transition period. This "no deal" scenario can not be ruled out. And it is therefore always necessary for each of your communities to prepare for it.

    To avoid this scenario, it is now up to everyone to take responsibility.

    British parliamentarians will in the coming days decide on the withdrawal agreement and the text of the political declaration.

    • This vote commits the future of their country.
    • We must respect this parliamentary and democratic debate in the United Kingdom.
    And, for our part, we must give the ratification time to the European Parliament.

    Ladies and gentlemen,

    On 22 March 2017, I concluded my speech before you, stressing that the challenges and the new European agenda are not just Brexit.

    Since the UK notification letter, the Commission chaired by Jean-Claude Juncker has continued to demonstrate its ability to take many positive initiatives, for our future to 27.

    In the face of Brexit, we have shown a strong unity, which has been our strength throughout this negotiation. We must continue to use this unity in the service of a positive agenda, an agenda that combines sovereignty and proximity to meet the challenges ahead: building a green Europe, an economy for all, a realistic and humanistic policy for migration and a Europe capable of defending itself and projecting itself into the world.

    Thus, with each Member State, each territory and each citizen we will build together the strong Europe of tomorrow. A Europe for which the United Kingdom will always remain a friend, a partner and an ally.

    thank you for your attention
     
  5. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    Thank you for posting.

    The next two years, plus whatever is added on the end, are going to be tortuous. Looking at how similar the Political Declaration looks to what we have now - and reinforced by Barnier's comments on the 'single customs territory' - Remainers should be happy enough, but it makes me wonder why the hell we're bothering.
     
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  6. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    I agree. If they weren’t going to take us out of the Eu, they shouldn’t have played silly beggars and given us a vote that made people think they would.
     
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  7. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    "Out" is, and will remain (oops), a term open to interpretation.

    The strict - 'legal' I suppose - definition would be that the UK would no longer be bound by the Treaties to which the EU members are signatories. Simple as that.

    We will have 'left' - be out of - the EU by that definition even if we sign new bilateral agreements that look, in many ways, rather similar. No amount of crying foul - or 'this isn't what 'we' voted for - changes that.

    What it does prove, yet again, is that you can't trust the weasel words of politicians. They will always find an interpretation that suits their own purposes, and in this case no individual Leaver can claim they have failed to abide by the ballot result just because the definition in May's overall deal is unlikely to deliver what they personally intended.
     
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  8. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    Of course. It’s what I’ve said since day one. :D I kept telling you Remainers to stop worrying so much and panicking.
    ;) It would have been worth worrying if determined brexiteers were in charge, but not only are they not in charge, they’ve steadily resigned. So much for them pulling all the strings. Of course it hasn’t been agreed and decided yet, but I think it’s clear what the majority of the government want.
     
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  9. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    But this particular Remainer voted that way a) to maintain the integrity of the EU b) to remain, personally, a European citizen and c) to reassure myself that the majority of the British people had the same global outlook as me.

    I've lost on all 3 fronts. At least the Leavers will be able to reduce migration and membership fees (even if both actually cost us money!)
     
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  10. noushka05

    noushka05 Unicorn denier. Snowflake. Activist ;)

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    1. [​IMG]Martin Lewis‏Verified account
      David Cameron truly left this country in the shit with his ill thought out referendum. It was a black and white vote on a rainbow of issues, with neither path nor plan on what to do with a leave vote.

      Politics at its worst. Leaving us with this intolerable political impasse

    20,136 likes
     
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  11. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    Ah but you didn’t panic. ;)

    Plus we haven’t left yet.
     
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  12. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    That is true, and this piece in the Grauniad by Lord Kerr (who wrote Article 50) seems to suggest we might not. He rules out No Deal, as Parliament almost certainly will, then ...

    The real debate now is between leaving under the humiliating terms of the proposed withdrawal agreement, with no certainty about the eventual permanent relationship, or staying with our current rights as full members, with a voice, a vote and veto.

    So the choice is between a bad Brexit deal and sticking with the deal we have in the EU. And it’s a choice for the people. I don’t think it would be right for parliament to just vote to stop the Brexit process. The people started this with their vote and they must make the final decision.​

    I admit I like the idea of the People choosing between the actual Brexit on offer, rather than a fantasy one, and Remain. But I wouldn't put money on the outcome.
     
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  13. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    I still don't get the 'betrayal' argument against a referendum on the deal. How can The People betray The People? And how can they be denied the chance to change their minds if that's what they want to do? And if it isn't, so be it.

    I can understand the use of the term by those who don't want to risk it, but there doesn't seem much logic behind it, unless Parliament reversed Brexit without asking the People.
     
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  14. noushka05

    noushka05 Unicorn denier. Snowflake. Activist ;)

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  15. cheekyscrip

    cheekyscrip Pitchfork blaster

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    It is the paradox of Brexit - on behalf of the half of the People deny all People to express their views now that they know a bit better what it is on about?
    Who can deny that we are better informed now than in 2016 though still not fully aware of consequences.
    At least we know about the buses, the Russians and the cake.
     
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  16. Satori

    Satori One of Life's Winners.

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    No surprises there. Instinctively, one would guess that May’s stitch up (why do people even call it a deal?) is so utterly appalling that nearly nobody would vote for it. I think she should be tried for treason for even suggesting it.

    Personally, I don’t much care nowadays whether the final decision is made by parliament or by a second referendum. The choice offered however should a simple one, “crash out” or “revoke article 50 and remain”.
     
  17. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    So according to this poll there’s still a majority who want to leave the Eu. Remain wins if leave voters are split and given two options, take the deal, or leave with no deal. In that case a second referendum is still too risky for remainers, for Theresa May and for the government who don’t want to leave and really don’t want to leave with no deal.

    There’s still the problem that polls have been getting it wrong. It’s too close to call.
     
  18. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    Two short videos from Euronews. (https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/euronews/)

    One from Chester which voted Leave and the other Scotland which voted Remain.

    https://www.euronews.com/2018/12/06/brexit-borders-how-brexit-is-seen-around-the-town-of-chester

    https://www.euronews.com/2018/12/06...never-going-to-be-a-deal-that-suits-everybody
     
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