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Brexit........ anyone want to talk about it?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by JANICE199, Aug 21, 2018.


  1. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    https://www.euronews.com/2018/10/09...-he-must-never-be-allowed-to-lead-the-uk-view
     
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  2. noushka05

    noushka05 Unicorn denier. Snowflake. Activist ;)

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    You dont need to be an experts to understand the ideology of the tories. You dont need to be an expert to see the tories record on green issues is dire. You dont need to be an expert to hear what they want to do to EU legislation which protects our natural environment. You dont need to be an expert to look at the tories voting histories on green issues. You only need to take a critically look at everything they stand for, at who bankrolls the tory party to know our environment is under grave danger from them.

    I was trying to multitask when I was replying to some posts last night:p so just replying to some in more detail now.

    Climate change should have been in every news bulletin, on every front page decades ago, like the the threat to the ozone layer was. The media have let us down big time, even now countless people dont even believe climate change is real though its effects are happening all around them:confused:. Many others believe its real but don't realise how close we are to global catastrophe. They dont know we have reached the tipping point of unstoppable runaway climate breakdown. There are examples on this forum of such people.

    Exactly why brexit is so dangerous to our future.

    Neoliberalism is largely responsible for the worlds problems never mind the UKs, its nothing to do with what remainers think, it is a fact.
     
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  3. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    You have it in your head that I adore the Conservative Party. I don't. I voted Labour in the last General Election and explained my reasons for not wanting to back them at the next General Election and I most certainly will not vote for the Conservatives either at the next General Election. This current Government has only one use and many people will abandon them once they have acheived what was voted for in 2016.
     
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  4. noushka05

    noushka05 Unicorn denier. Snowflake. Activist ;)

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  5. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    stockwellcat. and KittenKong like this.
  6. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Since the referendum was announced I understood it to be UK wide. I couldn't understand why Gibraltar had a say yet none of the other colonies did. I have my suspicions but I better keep that to myself!

    Not many people had heard of the Falklands before the conflict/war. Likewise with Angullia. I certainly didn't!

    Which begs the question. Were these colonies deliberately excluded from the vote, or was this neglect through incompetence?
     
  7. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Sensible Option
    Ask an MP in Parliament (Send a letter to Dominic Raab for instance and see what reply you get) as they are the ones who decided who and who cannot vote in the referendum of 2016 and who would be the ones to give you the most informative answer. There's no point asking on here as no one difinitively knows why Parliament excluded the British territories.
     
    #2407 stockwellcat., Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  8. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    I was inviting thoughts on this from others for reasons of a debate.

    I would be wasting my time contacting Dominic Rabb or our local Labour Party for that matter.

    Their answer would probably be the same as your own.
     
  9. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Personally I am not in the mood for a fresh debate/arguement as no one would be right on this as the remain voters on this thread would just argue they are right all the time so it would be pointless. The only way to get a sensible reply to the question you are asking is to ask MP's directly as they are the ones that voted who should and should not be allowed to vote in the EU referendum 2016 and therefore would have the answer.
     
  10. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    The answer is quite simple, with nothing at all sinister about it!

    Of all the British Overseas Territories the only one that is part of the EU is Gibraltar and in theory directly affected by the outcome.

    In reality however the others will be affected albeit indirectly, as some of the territories will lose any future EU funding.

    Anguilans for example are "British Overseas Citizens" and their passports reflect it

    [​IMG]

    The Gibraltar passport on the other hand is exactly the same as it is for you and I

    [​IMG]


    I didn't have a vote in the referendum because although I'm a British citizen I haven't lived in the UK for the past 15 years.

    It also I think, would depend what type of British citizenship you have whether you had a vote or not

    https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality
     
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  11. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Well that makes perfect sense why they were excluded. Sorry I didn't think of that simple fact. Well there you go @KittenKong there is your answer :)
     
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  12. 3dogs2cats

    3dogs2cats PetForums VIP

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    :confused::confused:
     
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  13. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    Please follow what is being said instead of pulling funny faces. I was replying to @Magyarmum and @Magyarmum's reply was a perfect response to @KittenKong's question hence why I added @KittenKong into the reply to @Magyarmum's reply.
     
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  14. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    As @Magyarmum says, it was simply because Gibraltar is in the EU and the other UK overseas bits and pieces are not. Eligibility mirrored that for a General Election, and then extended it a bit. This is from the Hansard record of debate on the Referendum bill. Speaking is Philip Hammond, who was Foreign Secretary at the time.

    The Bill also sets out the entitlement to vote in the referendum. Since this is an issue of national importance, the parliamentary franchise is the right starting point. It means that British citizens in the UK or resident abroad for less than 15 years and resident Commonwealth and Irish citizens can take part. The Bill extends the franchise in two very limited respects: to Members of the other place who meet certain qualifications and to Commonwealth citizens resident in Gibraltar. Members of the other place cannot take part in elections to this House on the grounds that they are already represented in Parliament, but it is clearly right that the franchise should be extended to them in the referendum. Gibraltar will also be deeply affected by its outcome. It is part of the European Union and its economy is closely bound to its relationship with the EU. Of course, Gibraltar already takes part in elections to the European Parliament as part of the South West of England. During debates on the private Member’s Bill in the previous Parliament, there was cross-party support for Gibraltar’s inclusion. I hope that that will remain.

    Some will argue that we should extend the franchise further to 16 and 17-year-olds, perhaps, or even to citizens of other EU countries resident here. We do not agree. This is an issue of national importance about Britain’s relationship with the European Union and it is right that the Westminster parliamentary franchise should be the basis for consulting the British people. I concede that there are those in the House who will wish to debate whether that franchise itself should be extended to 16 and 17-year-olds, but the Government are not persuaded and that is a debate for another day. It would be wrong to include 16 and 17-year-olds in this referendum as an addition to the Westminster franchise.

    I reject, too, the suggestion that EU citizens living in the UK should be included. The referendum is about delivering a pledge to the British people to consult them about the future of their country. It would be a travesty to seek to include EU nationals whose interests might be very different from those of the British people.​

    The 15 year residency rule was subsequently challenged in the Courts, and the case rejected.

    As Hammond expected, there was a lot of argument that 16 & 17 year olds should be included because this affected their future so much, but that was rejected. It would be speculative to suggest why.
     
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  15. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Thanks all for explaining that.

    Quite a lot of element of unfairness I think but I wouldn't expect Brexiters to agree to that!
     
  16. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    :D Some remainers might disagree with you as well, so why suggest that Brexitiers wouldn't agree with you? It sounds as if you are looking to place blame for who and who couldn't vote with Brexitiers. Well can I correct you. The whole of Parliament (SNP, Labour, Lib Dems, Green Party, DUP, Sinn Fein, UKIP and Conservatives all had a say and) voted through the rules on the referendum after debates in the chambers etc (Most of the MP's voted to remain). The courts agreed with the rules so where is there unfairness? I think the unfairness arises when some remainers blame brexitiers and leave voters for something that was voted for by remainers. :Muted

    If that is to confusing for you most MP's in Parliament voted remain so why blame Brexitiers and leave voters for something the MP's voted for?
     
    #2416 stockwellcat., Oct 11, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
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  17. Arnie83

    Arnie83 PetForums VIP

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    The 16-17 year olds are 18-19 now, so if there is another referendum they will no doubt have a say, and maybe a decisive one.
     
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  18. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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    Perhaps it was a little unfair on me to target all Brexiters under the same brush regarding that.

    I was referring to Farage saying a narrow majority for remain wouldn't be the end of the matter, yet many Brexiters throw a tantrum at the suggestion of this applying to a similary narrow Leave victory as well.
     
  19. KittenKong

    KittenKong PetForums VIP

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  20. stockwellcat.

    stockwellcat. PetForums VIP

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    and the 14 and 15 year olds of 2016 will now be 16 and 17 and will be complaining they couldn't take part in any new referendum so the UK would get stuck in having referendums every 2 years, a neverendum.
     
    Magyarmum likes this.
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