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Breeding for money

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Sleeping_Lion, Nov 1, 2013.


  1. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    I thought I'd start this discussion, because it often comes up that people who breed, will make money. It's assumed, that at some point, over their *breeding career* there will be a profit.

    I'd like to dispel that myth, at some points in time, you may end up cash rich, ie, you have a lot of cash in your hand, but that does not mean you are in profit.

    So let's look at the costs, health testing for my two breeds is quite extensive, on average, I'd suggest it costs approx £700 each, including petrol costs driving to people who will take good quality plates. If anything isn't right, then that's at least £50 invested, which is the cost of the cheapest health test, for no return.

    Equipment, I spent several hundred pounds on equipment for whelping, some of which can be used again, I need a new whelping box, I think mine cost about £70 from memory including delivery, and I went through various amounts of drugs which have a use by date so I will need them again. I'm guessing on average I've probably spent about £180 on things that I either made use of, or have gone past their sell by date, but bought in just in case I needed them.

    Progesterone testing, at £60 a pop, driving it up to Idexx and paying for the vet to draw bloods, I reckon I spent at least £500 for five progesterone tests for Tau.

    Stud dog fees and travel, Probably another £600 all told, so petrol and stud dog fees included.

    Scans and ongoing treatment during pregnancy, probably about another £200 for a couple of trips, including a scan to confirm pregnancy.

    Then you've got your increased bills, food etc, all of which soon hike up your utility bills by several hundred pounds over a short period. I know for a fact I was £1.5k in debt by the end of £2012, mostly down to the litter I had, I use very little otherwise.

    And then for me, I may have come close to even, but Tau needed an emergency C-section, and then two pups died after trying to treat them, which in itself was close to £2.7k. I got £3k in payment for the five remaining pups. Work it out for yourself, those who think everyone is in it to make money, think again, and none of the money can ever make up for all of the hard work the heart ache of putting your bitch through a c-section (and spay) and losing pups that you've done your best to try and pull through.

    So no, not everyone breeds for money, and if you think that's true of someone you're buying a pup from, then maybe you need to ask if you can find someone who breeds for something else.

    Just to carry that on, and I've alluded to this in another thread, I'm probably going to be close to spending £3k on health testing and *campaigning* my two youngsters by the new year, and plan to travel to Europe to possibly see if I can find the right dog for Rhuna, pending on health test results, and how she pans out, although I can't see her temperament and ability being an issue. That's not a holiday, I don't have holidays, because my dogs come first, the dogs will stay at home in the care of one of the few people I trust with them, while I check out possible suitors.

    Sorry for a bit of a rant, but it really is something that annoys me when people assume you are making vast sums of money from breeding, when it isn't always the case, I have lost lots of money so far from even breeding just the one litter. I did health tests on Tau's sister only to decide because her elbow plates weren't good, not to go ahead. I don't ever count on recouping that money, I don't want to, that's not what I'm involved with *breeding* for.
     
  2. Meezey

    Meezey Slave to the Black & Tans and the Trundle Bugs.

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    Most people I know, end up making a loss from breeding, but that's not why they do it. :rolleyes: DNA test, elbows, hips, eyes, hearts, stud fees, vet care, food, worming, weaning, microchipping all free dontcha know.......
     
  3. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Gawd I forgot about paying to microchip each pup and having them vet checked, I think that vets bill was another £270 or there abouts, but that did include Zasa's first vaccinations, and Aria's, who I sadly had to have pts not long afterwards.
     
  4. Meezey

    Meezey Slave to the Black & Tans and the Trundle Bugs.

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    I think the problems is those who say that breeding is all about money haven't a clue what goes in to good well thought out ethical breeding, I think they think you throw dog "a" an "b" together, and then you sell the puppies for £700 quid each, you've got 10 so you've just made yourself £7'000... Nice..

    Don't get me wrong there are breeder out there who do just that, and people pay stupid amounts for a cross breed or breed, I wouldn't touch a person who did that with a barge pole, and I'd strongly advise others not to either...

    If a breeder is breeding for money they are not an ethical breeder, they won't have all the relevant health tests carried out, they would have just stuck dogs together, no research, no DNA test, pups will be weaned on the cheapest food, they might get vet checked as might Mum, they will be in a back room once weaned and p'ing and poo'ing and wanting proper food and worming and chipping they are gone to the first person who hands their money over. Those people will put as little money and time in to the pups they can and expect a profit. BYB and puppy farmers those are the people who make money out of breeding.
     
  5. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Completely agree, and the more I get involved with breeding, the less people I trust to be honest, because it's too easy to hide the truth, and some that I've trusted previously, have proven just how easy it is to lie by ommission. I made a decision when Indie got her 2:1 elbow grades, even though there was a doubt about the quality of the plates, that if I couldn't be honest about that result and publish it openly, then I shouldn't ever be involved with breeding. I'm an honest person, I couldn't lie to anyone about anything, and something this important, to me, you have to be able to trust the breeder.
     
  6. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Gawd, just totted up the costs above, and there are at least £6k in costs, which are over and above owning and maintaining a dog. As far as I'm concerned, Tau is here for life, her purchase price wasn't included in those costs, and she will always have a home here. I hadn't appreciated I'd probably ended up more than the estimated £3k in the red.

    Never mind eh, I'll bear that in mind when someone else tells me I MUST make a profit, somewhere along the line :D
     
  7. Callie

    Callie PetForums Senior

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    I just took out a new Insurance policy for Orrin, the pup we kept back from our latest litter....which we made no money at whatsoever as 4 pups plus section,vet checks health test etc etc soon added up to a minus dosh.
    Anyway when I took out the policy i said I MIGHT breed from her so would they still cover even though I know they don't cover anything breeding related but they said as long as she has no more than 2 litters and I don't make any monetary gain from the litters then they would insure. Made me feel guilty as you know everyone thinks you make money when you undertake any breeding:(
    This is a great post especially seeing it all broken down!!!
     
  8. dandogman

    dandogman PetForums VIP

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    ''You should mate Pippa with a Poodle, the pups would make lots of money'' :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

    They probably wouldn't know what a health test was...
     
  9. BessieDog

    BessieDog PetForums VIP

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    One of my bug bears is people mating their bitch to a top stud dog, and then selling the pups on the basis of HIS pedigree. No campaigning at all.

    That's what gets my goat - I wouldn't like to even start to add up how much I've spent on showing Bess. And we've nt got anywhere to speak of yet!

    Problem is, pups from non descript parents are selling the same as good health tested and proven dogs.

    The only reason I can see why we bother is because we CARE!
     
  10. shamykebab

    shamykebab PetForums VIP

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    Been there, done that. Litter of pups developed severe vomiting and diarrhoea on Friday evening of a Bank Holiday weekend. Consult fee alone was £120. Luckily, I could set up my own drip at home over the weekend so saved on hospitalisation fees, or I dread to think what that could have come to (the weekend ended up costing me over £300 as it was, plus zero sleep over three days).

    Have also spent almost £400 on health tests on another young bitch of mine, a lovely girl, absolutely super breeding, won tests this summer and is now about to start her first trialling season...came back with a hip score of 71.

    Such is life.
     
  11. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

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    I don't like that either, happens in cats too. People don't show but will put in their ads champion lines or lines from XX.

    Offering stud service can be a way of making money too, especially if you're not fussy on who comes to visit, for some just a health certificate is enough to get in the door.

    For good breeders any cash in hand goes right back into the cattery.
     
  12. we love bsh's

    we love bsh's PetForums VIP

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    SL in short- very short i can confirm breeders do not make money..if they dont cut corners that is.;)
     
  13. we love bsh's

    we love bsh's PetForums VIP

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    see lots of breeders especially with no prefix etc selling kits sired by champion stud..im like yeah and!
     
  14. spotty cats

    spotty cats PetForums VIP

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    Different here as you can't be sold a breeding cat without having a prefix, but otherwise yeah it's pretty similar, ads I've seen neither parent is titled they're just saying from XX lines or champion lines -relying on what's been done by breeders before them rather than showing their own cats.
     
  15. we love bsh's

    we love bsh's PetForums VIP

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    really i didnt know that wow.

    yes i get you,thats even more annoying,their at could be pants,they may not know what a nice typy cat is but they can write champions throughout ped :rolleyes:
     
  16. Prowl

    Prowl Guest

    Busts my hump because common sense tells me that health testing costs money and even with a heafty price tag after the costs of vet trips, propper health tests, insurance, puppy packs their really isn't much left over is their?

    Thats what you support when you buy a pedigree dog someone who has taken the time to care for each of their dogs through pregnency to birth and after.
     
  17. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Sorry to hear about your girl's hip score, I hope she's one of the ones where it has absolutely no effect on her quality of life and is one of those who just happens to have a high score, but doesn't show any outward sign of a problem. But it's a b*gga all the same :(
     
  18. BenBoy

    BenBoy Banned

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    A girl at work has a springer and a poodle and they accidentally had two puppies, springerpoos for sale at £550 each.
     
  19. paddyjulie

    paddyjulie PetForums VIP

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    Then there's the dog that's only having a singleton puppy . Often when a singleton pup is involved the mother often needs a C-section as labour does not start as more pups are needed to trigger it off and the pup can be bigger than the norm.


    So that's a C-section and a single puppy to sell, no profit there whatsoever . .
     
  20. 8tansox

    8tansox PetForums VIP

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    Most people who breed do make a profit, and it's usually a whopping profit too, because they don't do ANY testing whatsoever, they put two dogs together and voila - puppies, designer crossbreeds or same breed or mongrels. These breeders will keep on doing it time and time again simply because they don't bother with health tests or educating themselves. The BELIEVE it's their right to allow their bitch to have a litter, because vets are still spewing out drivel.

    I think I have heard every argument on this planet for wanting to breed; good for the bitch; want my children to see how wonderful a birth is; because she's so cute; because my family and friends want a puppy, yada yada yada.... I'm sick of it. Ethical breeders are definitely in the minority sadly.

    Easy money for the lazy un-educated and ignorant lay-a-bouts, but what's worse, people buy puppies from them, so the breeders will definitely do it again, and again and again. I fear this will NEVER end until all breeders are made ultimately responsible for their puppies, for that dog's life.

    Sorry, gone off on one a bit there!:yikes:
     
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