I thought I'd start this discussion, because it often comes up that people who breed, will make money. It's assumed, that at some point, over their *breeding career* there will be a profit. I'd like to dispel that myth, at some points in time, you may end up cash rich, ie, you have a lot of cash in your hand, but that does not mean you are in profit. So let's look at the costs, health testing for my two breeds is quite extensive, on average, I'd suggest it costs approx £700 each, including petrol costs driving to people who will take good quality plates. If anything isn't right, then that's at least £50 invested, which is the cost of the cheapest health test, for no return. Equipment, I spent several hundred pounds on equipment for whelping, some of which can be used again, I need a new whelping box, I think mine cost about £70 from memory including delivery, and I went through various amounts of drugs which have a use by date so I will need them again. I'm guessing on average I've probably spent about £180 on things that I either made use of, or have gone past their sell by date, but bought in just in case I needed them. Progesterone testing, at £60 a pop, driving it up to Idexx and paying for the vet to draw bloods, I reckon I spent at least £500 for five progesterone tests for Tau. Stud dog fees and travel, Probably another £600 all told, so petrol and stud dog fees included. Scans and ongoing treatment during pregnancy, probably about another £200 for a couple of trips, including a scan to confirm pregnancy. Then you've got your increased bills, food etc, all of which soon hike up your utility bills by several hundred pounds over a short period. I know for a fact I was £1.5k in debt by the end of £2012, mostly down to the litter I had, I use very little otherwise. And then for me, I may have come close to even, but Tau needed an emergency C-section, and then two pups died after trying to treat them, which in itself was close to £2.7k. I got £3k in payment for the five remaining pups. Work it out for yourself, those who think everyone is in it to make money, think again, and none of the money can ever make up for all of the hard work the heart ache of putting your bitch through a c-section (and spay) and losing pups that you've done your best to try and pull through. So no, not everyone breeds for money, and if you think that's true of someone you're buying a pup from, then maybe you need to ask if you can find someone who breeds for something else. Just to carry that on, and I've alluded to this in another thread, I'm probably going to be close to spending £3k on health testing and *campaigning* my two youngsters by the new year, and plan to travel to Europe to possibly see if I can find the right dog for Rhuna, pending on health test results, and how she pans out, although I can't see her temperament and ability being an issue. That's not a holiday, I don't have holidays, because my dogs come first, the dogs will stay at home in the care of one of the few people I trust with them, while I check out possible suitors. Sorry for a bit of a rant, but it really is something that annoys me when people assume you are making vast sums of money from breeding, when it isn't always the case, I have lost lots of money so far from even breeding just the one litter. I did health tests on Tau's sister only to decide because her elbow plates weren't good, not to go ahead. I don't ever count on recouping that money, I don't want to, that's not what I'm involved with *breeding* for.