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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im sure this is going to come out wrong, so before I start I want to say that I am not trying to piss off staffy owners, I do not hate staffies or think they should be banned. I support deed not breed, I do not believe newspaper hype etc etc

But it seems to me that (on here at least) staffy owners dont seem to want to admit that dog aggression is a problem in the breed, and I dont understand why. As far as some are concerned staffies are no more likely to be dog aggressive than any other breed.

But thats just not the case, IMO dog aggression is a breed trait of the SBT, and should be recognised as such. It's well known that prey drive is a breed trait of the husky, that same sex aggression is a breed trait of Malamutes, and these are brought up as fact when talking to anyone considering owning one. Hence why when we were deciding on our 3rd dog (we had a choice of keyu or a slightly younger malamute bitch) we chose Keyu, because we didnt want the risk of same sex aggression between 2 bitches.

Doberman owners are happy to admit to it, as are malamute owners. So why aren't staffy owners? All you see on here is 'staffies are just like any other dog if brought up properly'. If we see a story about a staffy attack it's 'it must be an undersocialised, untrained dog, poor dog, bad owner'. No one seems to want to admit that yes, dog aggression is very very common in SBTs.

To me that seems wrong. I got Diesel on the assurance of his previous owners regarding his temperament. And also because after being on here for 2 years I was confident that with us being good, knowledgeable owners, our dog was no more at risk of becoming aggressive than one of our sibes. Had I known that actually, staffies can have dog aggression issues, I wouldnt have risked bringing him into the house.

We werent idiot owners, we spent a lot of time training and socializing Diesel, and in the end a lot of money on professional training. We had brought up a staffy before (family dog) who is a fab dog, so we werent completely new to the breed. Yet our dog reached a certain point and flipped with no return.

Yes owners are an issue, mainly with being irresponsible, but IMO the breed has a dog aggression problem and this should be more well spoken about by owners, rather than hidden away and defended against. There are a lot of DA staffies about (we've had run in's with a fair few) and not every single one of the owners can be an idiot.

Even with idiot owners, there should not be as many DA staff as there are. Idiots own every breed, but those arent breeds well known for attacking other dogs.

NOTE: please lets keep this friendly!
 
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Personally i dont think DA is a breed trait simple, im not denying anything i just simply do not think staffs are by nature any more aggressive thats my experience.

Stanlie has an A*** temp with all dogs can meet a dog and be fine straight away, has been snapped at by poodles, collies etc and he just runs away!!!.
Hooch has too be introduced properly due to when he was a pup he was attacked and he didnt have the socilisation needed he only really mixed with my oh's brothers stafford but once introduced properly hes fine.

My brother has two staffords they are great tempered very playful love all dogs. My ohs brother has a stafford again loves all dogs has a great temp.

I know alot of people with staffords with fab temps a few can be a bit funny with other dogs, they didnt have there dogs from a pup and do not know there full history.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Personally i dont think DA is a breed trait simple, im not denying anything i just simply do not think staffs are by nature any more aggressive thats my experience.

Stanlie has an A*** temp with all dogs can meet a dog and be fine straight away, has been snapped at by poodles, collies etc and he just runs away!!!.
Hooch has too be introduced properly due to when he was a pup he was attacked and he didnt have the socilisation needed he only really mixed with my oh's brothers stafford but once introduced properly hes fine.

My brother has two staffords they are great tempered very playful love all dogs. My ohs brother has a stafford again loves all dogs has a great temp.

I know alot of people with staffords with fab temps a few can be a bit funny with other dogs, they didnt have there dogs from a pup and do not know there full history.
I didnt have 2 of my sibes from pups, one was undersocialised and one was abused for 6 months. They are both still fine with other dogs. The undersocialised dog is a little rude upon meeting sometimes as he get so excited, but he is not at all aggressive. and I know many other dogs of other breeds who turn out the same

If there is no DA issue why is there such a huge difference between staffies and other dogs, even when past experiences have been bad?

buster had had 4 homes by 4 months old - he still turned out good (staffy)
 

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I didnt have 2 of my sibes from pups, one was undersocialised and one was abused for 6 months. They are both still fine with other dogs. The undersocialised dog is a little rude upon meeting sometimes as he get so excited, but he is not at all aggressive. and I know many other dogs of other breeds who turn out the same

If there is no DA issue why is there such a huge difference between staffies and other dogs, even when past experiences have been bad?

buster had had 4 homes by 4 months old - he still turned out good (staffy)
Because imo all dogs are different deal with things differently, i know of other breeds of dogs that are agressive i have met enough for all different reasons.

My brothers new girl was not very well treated locked up in a cage for the day etc she was 6 months when they got her and shes a little darling very happy and great with other dogs and from what ive been told i dont think she was socilised at all with other dogs.

So too sum it up Imo it is not a breed thing, its the individual dog and there circumstances and personalities that help them deal with certain experiences.

Just a thought. If DA was a breed trait in the stafford surely there would be more than the amount of dogs there are that are DA,including all the ones that are fab with other dogs members staffords on here, and on all the staffy forums etc. the amount of well socilised great tempered staffords i know and have met far out weigh DA Staffords infact i can't even think of one DA stafford i have met!!!!.
 

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i don't think that came across badly at all. i see where you're coming from and i do agree that staffies do sometimes tend towards dog aggression more than other breeds, but i think it's more the assumption from other owners that your dog will be, just because others are, that people get annoyed with, because it often IS about socialisation imo. as far as it goes, even if some staffies can be, plenty aren't and i know my own dog. she shouldn't always be on a lead, as it has been said all staffies should be.
 

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I fully accept that alot of staffs are DA or a tendacy to be DA. I also know there is an equal number of staffs who perfectly fine around other dogs.

My issue is that people make out like staffs are the only breed in the world with DA as a breed trait. They aren't. There are other breeds who are DA by trait. There are other breeds with worse traits then DA but all these things get overlooked in favour of 'omg killer staff'

And this is of course my opinion ;)
 

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For anyone really interested (and I mean really because this book is really long) there has been a great research paper/book called The Pitbull Placebo available free online to study the history and facts surrounding dog aggression. It's mainly focused on America with pitbulls being the US's staffys aggression reputation wise but I think it's a good read for anyone who wants to be informed. One thing I noted was that 'back in the day' Newfies had a very bad rep and killed many a person.

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/publications/230603563_Pit Bull Placebo.pdf
 

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I fully accept that alot of staffs are DA or a tendacy to be DA. I also know there is an equal number of staffs who perfectly fine around other dogs.

My issue is that people make out like staffs are the only breed in the world with DA as a breed trait. They aren't. There are other breeds who are DA by trait. There are other breeds with worse traits then DA but all these things get overlooked in favour of 'omg killer staff'

And this is of course my opinion ;)
Agree with this but are the majority of those breeds from the guarding/fighting breeds?
You cannot get away from the fact that the Staffy was originally bred to fight other dogs, it's in their make up, much like a Retriever has the urge to carry something.

Perception and facts can often be two different things.

http://apbc.org.uk/sites/default/files/review_2005.pdf
Look at where their sample dogs were taken from though. There is no breakdown of which breeds came from which environment :confused:
Makes the survey a little pointless I feel
 

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There's also this research paper from 2008 on dog aggression: http://140.122.143.143/yuyinghs/yuyinghsu/papers/DuffyHsuSerpell2008.pdf
which includes staffordshires on the list of breeds studied. Interestingly on the graph on page 8 ESS, Westies and Dachshund's are the most common to be DA according to breed clubs (although for some reason staffs are not on this graph). Anyway, if you can make head and tail of the study (which I found quite difficult with all the stats) it's quite interesting.

On page 11 more breeds are studied and as well as Pitbull/Staffs, JRTs, Akita's and Dachshund's are noted.
 

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Agree with this but are the majority of those breeds from the guarding/fighting breeds?
You cannot get away from the fact that the Staffy was originally bred to fight other dogs, it's in their make up, much like a Retriever has the urge to carry something.

Look at where their sample dogs were taken from though. There is no breakdown of which breeds came from which environment :confused:
Makes the survey a little pointless I feel
Nope, as in http://140.122.143.143/yuyinghs/yuyinghsu/papers/DuffyHsuSerpell2008.pdf JRT's and dachshund's are found tn be as, if not more, dog aggressive. Breeds like ESS are noted to be one of the most human aggressive.
 

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I work in an animal rescue and have had the pleasure of getting to know hundreds of Staffy's over the years. Only a small amount were DA.

In my experience, Border Collie's are the worst for dog aggression.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Of course staffies arent the only dogs with dog aggression, but there seems to be a higher % of staffies in comparison to other breeds (sorry on phone getting ready for training ao havent read links yet)

i also dont think that all staffies should be on the lead, the dog friendly ones have as much right to offlead exercise as other friendly ones.
 

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Wrong!

Sorry S&K...

Staffy's are GLADIATORIAL dogs, this is in built tenacity that meant they wouldn't stand down in event of a confrontation- initially with a bull but equally this can spill onto other animals- if not held in check. Another massive trait is submission to humans- ergo if you handle the dog properly it should respond to you well.

Obviously INDIVIDUALS will show greater and lesser degrees of these traits.

Aggression is not the trait- not backing down from a challenge is.

To be honest i'm quite sick and tired of writing this on these threads- aggression is not a dog trait- because otherwise how on earth would a dog breed if it was feral/wild- aggression is piss poor breeding- it would be stamped out in nature surely (except in packs defending territory- EVEN THEN it is not beneficial in any animal's life history to engage in combat unless it is for major stakes like the right to breed etc)

Stoicness, loyalty, aloofness, prey drive etc are ALL traits

Peace out!:D
 

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Of course staffies arent the only dogs with dog aggression, but there seems to be a higher % of staffies in comparison to other breeds (sorry on phone getting ready for training ao havent read links yet)

i also dont think that all staffies should be on the lead, the dog friendly ones have as much right to offlead exercise as other friendly ones.
Can't agree with that. If there are more of a breed of dog about there's more chance that it will seem like those are the ones attacking. If all of x breed were DA but there were only 10 in the country, but every 1 in 100 staffs were aggressive and there were a hundred thousand, who would you believe to be the biggest danger? I don't think it's a higher %, I think there's just a ton of staffs and staff mixes around in comparison to a lot of other breeds.
 

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Can't agree with that. If there are more of a breed of dog about there's more chance that it will seem like those are the ones attacking. If all of x breed were DA but there were only 10 in the country, but every 1 in 100 staffs were aggressive and there were a hundred thousand, who would you believe to be the biggest danger? I don't think it's a higher %, I think there's just a ton of staffs and staff mixes around in comparison to a lot of other breeds.
I meet more aggressive labradors and collies and lurchers than I do staffs. Its quite rare I even see a staffie round here.
 

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I meet more aggressive labradors and collies and lurchers than I do staffs. Its quite rare I even see a staffie round here.
I guess it depends on what area you live in as to what the most populous breed is, and often they get a bad rep (once again like I say the more popular the breed, the more bad eggs there may be). There's lots of staffs where I am, not so much labs, and the only dogs who have ever attacked or snapped at Kes so far are: staff, GSD and JRT. I find a lot of people in highly populated lab areas find labs to be quite aggressive.
 

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Posting quickly before I go off to the dungeon for another day writing exciting reports about bridges, but I can't agree at all. If staffies didn't look they way they did, ie big powerful jaws, lean and muscular, I doubt they'd attract the sort of owners that unfortunately give them this reputation. They are a victim of their appearance, just as other 'ard dogs are, they aren't the easiest of dogs to socialise and train, after all, they are a terrier and to be very honest, I wouldn't have one as I don't have the time or energy to even want to try (although I am helping out another owner with their stubborn little lad, not a socialisation problem, but a recall issue which could get him into problems if he's not careful).

Not all breeds are bred with the same regard to mingling with other dogs, some breeds are more stand offish, or more likely to be confrontational, but this is nothing that good socialisation and training can't sort out. Unfortunately, because people are churning them out and selling to any home that will have them, that pretty much perpetuates the myth that staffies and other bull breeds are born dog aggressive. :(
 
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