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Bogus Breeder

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by DawnJoy, Oct 2, 2013.


  1. DawnJoy

    DawnJoy PetForums Newbie

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    Does anyone know my rights?

    I purchased a 5 generation Pedigree Chihuahua(kennel club registered) a year ago. The breeder, of twenty years, said she bred the mother and the father and were from a line of champions.
    It became increasing visible that she is not a Pedigree Chihuahua, so i had a DNA test done. One parent is indeed cross bred, as is its parents and grandparents.
    I paid £1000 for her and although i wouldn't part with her, i have been well and truly conned and i want to get my money back....:mad:
     
  2. AlexArt

    AlexArt PetForums Senior

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    Have you contacted the KC firstly to determine wether the documents you have are real and the breeder is who they say they are?, they should also be able to give you advice on what route to take. I would also speak to The Chi Club - they may have heard of this breeder and it might stop others from going to this breeder in future. I would have thought you'd have to go to the small claims court, the fact you have proof that the dog was sold not as described is great, wether the time elapsed since you bought the dog has been too long I don't know.

    Have you contacted the breeder? - what was their response to the DNA test? - try threatening going to the papers or something if they don't want to know, or even get a solicitor to write up a letter saying you will take further action if a refund of some sort is not given - usually that will make people cough up!

    I would have thought, if the time passed isn't too long, you should be entitled to a full refund under the sale of goods act, but since you do not want to part with the dog, understandably, then you may have to settle for a partial one - if it were me I'd ask for the value of a crossbred puppy taken off, say £250 and the remaining £750 returned to you as the dog was sold under false pretences, I would have thought it's classed as fraud.
    You may find if the 'breeder' does not want to give you any money at all back and it may cost you more to get the money back than you'd actually get! In which case I'd enjoy the dog as a lovely pet and chalk it down to experience - it doesn't make any difference to the actual dog in any way other than if you had bought her to show or breed, I'm sure plenty of folk have dogs who are not what they were sold as!
    Any pics?
     
  3. Hopeattheendofthetunnel

    Hopeattheendofthetunnel PetForums VIP

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    As AlexArt suggested - your first step is to contact the breeder.

    In writing. Via recorded/signed for delivery.

    Hard as it is, do NOT get personal, offensive, abusive...but remain factual, brief and polite. State your premise ( that the dog you bought from her is not purebred), delineate your objective ( a refund) and attach a copy of the DNA results.

    This will get the ball rolling. For all you know your dog wasn't the result of concious deception but what breeders refer to as an "oops" litter . Not desirable, lf course, but not exactly unheard of if the breeder keeps more than one breed on the premises.

    Not sure whether dogs fall under the "sales of goods" act, but even if they don't - although this link suggests that they do :The law relating to commercial and private sellers of dogs. - as money has been exchanged and there is a contract between the 2 parties, if you paid x for a purebred dog and the dog turns out NOT to be purebred, you are entitled to a refund. But please note that IF the breeder refunds you, she is entitled to have her dog back.

    So please think carefully whether this is really what you want.
     
  4. chichi

    chichi Banned

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    Can you post a picture of the dog?

    Did you meet the Parents of the pup?

    Unfortunately, some people think that if a Chi grows to be bigger than a handful, they are not pedigree. Not true at all.

    Also, the dna test...what kind was it. I've heard of people in the show world having their toy breed dna tested (just out of curiosity) and it's come back with huge breeds in the results...when clearly...that is not the case! I think these were the over the counter type dna tests kits (this was some time ago I read this, so these tests may be more reliable now, not sure). Presumably, the type where you have a blood test taken at the Vets, would be more precise though whether 100% accurate, I am not sure.

    A bit more information would help us to help you.

    If the Breeder refuses to refund you, then it would be lengthy court proceedings and unless the DNA test is totally reliable and the results were accepted by the Court, you could end up being a lot worse off financially.
     
  5. kaiyaakita

    kaiyaakita PetForums Junior

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    i would try the kennel club route get as much info from them as poss. As for the dna test I have heard these are pretty unreliable so wouldn't trust them. What did the breeder actually say when you approached them? Not sure how you would stand after a year.
     
  6. chichi

    chichi Banned

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    I would think the OP would be in a good position, even after a year but ONLY if the test is guaranteed to be 100% accurate. Otherwise, where there is doubt, I would think the Court would find it hard to press the Breeder into refunding the money; if they continued to swear the pup was purebred.

    Also, somebody mentioned £250 being reasonable for the price of the pup, if it is accepted that it isn't purebred. Where the Chi breed is concerned, some of the "designer" *cough cough* breeds (aka crossbreeds) sell for more than purebred Chis....such as "Chugs" ... I have seen them being sold for in excess of £600....and they went like hot cakes :confused: Leaving KC registered purebred Chis still being advertised for less money (males) weeks later.

    Obviously, we don't know the supposed breed this pup was bred with but if it is JRT, then yes, they can go for as little as £250 up to £400 when I last had a nosey at the free ads.
     
  7. kirksandallchins

    kirksandallchins PetForums VIP

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    If it is a long coat Chihuahua, I believe some breeders crossed smooth coats with other toy breeds to produce more long coated ones, so DNA tests may show crosses to other breeds even if it was generations ago.

    On The Wonder of Dogs on BBC2 a few weeks ago they DNA tested some dogs and came up with some unusual breeds in the dogs tested - including Rat Terrier (an American breed rarely if ever seen in the UK). It made me wonder how useful these DNA tests were
     
  8. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    A lot of pedigree dogs can grow up looking 'faulty' and I would certainly not trust DNA tests from what I hear of them so I think you would have a problem in court.
    do you have photos of your dog so that chi owners on here can give their thoughts on it.
     
  9. DawnJoy

    DawnJoy PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you everyone that has taken time to give me some good advice.
    I have been in contact with the kennel club who advised me to get the DNA test. It is a reputable DNA test company. They didn't know what breed she was and it came back she was Chihuahua purebred on her fathers side and that her mother (who was bred by the breeder was a cross breed as was both the grandparents .......
    The KC also put me onto trading standards who have informed me it does come under sale of goods act. I sent the breeder numerous letters included recorded delivery and emails but as yet have had no reply from any letter. I said i wanted £800 refund as £200 was a fair price for an unidentified cross breed. https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd....320/1381506_10151891693309604_941355113_n.jpg

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Ann Elizabeth

    Ann Elizabeth PetForums Senior

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    Just read this thread through and wanted to wish you luck with sorting this out with the breeder! I don't know much about Chi's but I've never seen one who looks like your girl, nonetheless she looks like a lovely girl.
     
  11. BeauNoir

    BeauNoir PetForums VIP

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    Hate to say it, but yours does look the spit of my mother in law's 'jack-a-chi'. First cross Jack Russell and Chihuahua. I'm not a breeder or anything so don't take my word for it, it's just how it looks to me.

    I hope it all gets sorted. :)
     
  12. jaycee05

    jaycee05 PetForums VIP

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    Definitely looks to have Jack Russel in her, what a shame you have to go through this, good luck, although you love her,£1000 is a lot to pay for a x breed, I wonder if she has had other complaints
     
  13. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Must admit that was the first thing I though of too when I saw the photos a Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix.

    They are a popular cross as it happens so if the mother was a cross, its possible perhaps that she was a Jack Russell x Chihuahua herself.
     
  14. DawnJoy

    DawnJoy PetForums Newbie

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    Ha Ha neither have i :D
     
  15. DawnJoy

    DawnJoy PetForums Newbie

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    I have added a couple of photos- would appreciate your views?
     
  16. kodakkuki

    kodakkuki PetForums VIP

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    Tbh, I can't really see the terrier in her :eek: to me, she looks like a big non standard 'deer headed' chi...

    So the DNA test said she's half chi, (sites side bein ped) an the mother was 25% this, 25% that, 25% other and 25% goodness knows what? Please don't take this the wrong way, but would you no have noticed such a mix of a mother when viewing the litter?

    She's a beautiful girl anyway, and I hope ou get this sorted- what a horrible situation for the breeder to put you in!!
     
  17. dexter

    dexter PetForums VIP

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    certainly got some jr in her :)
     
  18. happysaz133

    happysaz133 PetForums VIP

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    I see JRT as well, did the mother look different to you? I hope something can be sorted, not fair at all.
     
  19. babycham2002

    babycham2002 PetForums VIP

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    My understanding was that those DNA tests were not suitable to be used on 'purebred' dogs as it threw out weird results ?


    Could you link me to the company used?
     
  20. lostbear

    lostbear Bear right at Newcastle . . .

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    Jackahuahua - I'd put money on it.
     
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