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Bischon Frise toilet issues

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by DataDave, Nov 8, 2012.


  1. DataDave

    DataDave PetForums Newbie

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    I hope you dont mind me asking a few dog related questions.

    To give a bit of background, On Sunday we got a Bichon Frise boy dog 21 months old. He came from a well respected breeder within the Bichon world who mainly bred for shows, not pets. Although she is now starting to sell the dogs due to her own health issues.
    He was on a raw food diet, slept in a crate with other dogs in nearby crates.

    We were assured by the breeder he was toilet trained.

    On Monday, we decided to change his diet as we didnt want to feed him the one she was giving. So we give the dry food recommended to me by Pets At Home.

    He seems to have taken to this ok. At night he sleeps in his crate but winges a bit, but then settles.

    The problem lies with his toilet procedure. I take him out first thing in the morning and last thing at night. My wife takes him out during the day.

    He has been peeing and pooing on the floor in the house, luckily its wooden floor so cleans up easily. A couple of days ago we tried the pads that go under the sheet on a child bed at night and he seemed to go occasionally on them. So, yesterday I bought the puppy pads, He hasnt once gone on these at all. I thought he would use these straight away as it has the scent that attracts. But this hasnt worked as yet.

    Although we got him on Sunday, and have dramatically changed his routine and diet, am I expecting to much of him to be toilet trained in our house? Should I be giving it a bit longer before becoming concerned?

    Do you have any advice that you can share please?

    Thanks, sorry for the long detail.
     
  2. 2Cats2Dogs

    2Cats2Dogs PetForums VIP

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    Hi Dave

    I have a Bichon and it requires extreme patience to house break them. We got our Bichon at 6 months old and it was frustrating to walk through pee on our wooden floor!! We have got him into a routine by where we let him out to do his business every 3-4 hours. We still have the occasional accident, but he had improved over time since we have got him. He really is good now. Our Westie tends to be lazier out of the 2.

    I would recommend against the pads as he could get really used to it and it could make it even more difficult to house break him. If you do use pads, move ever so close to the back door so he gets used to going out.

    My advice would be to encourage him to go in the garden and when he does, reward him with a treat. That's how we done it and it worked for us.
     
  3. DataDave

    DataDave PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you, we will try it. Appreciate your advice.
     
  4. Sarah1983

    Sarah1983 PetForums VIP

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    I would go right back to basics and treat him as though he were a puppy that had never been house trained. Take him out every half hour, give him lots of reward for getting it right and practically no opportunity to get it wrong. No freedom in the house for now. And I'd ditch the puppy pads if you want him toileting outside.

    None of my dogs have generalised house training and have needed a quick refresher course when we've moved house or when I've taken them to someone elses house.
     
  5. BoredomBusters

    BoredomBusters PetForums VIP

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    Did you see how they kept the dogs at the breeders house? Bichons kept for show purposes are often kept on white paper so their coats don't stain - which means they never get house trained properly.

    It could also be stress from being taken away from everything they know, so be kind!

    Go back to basics and retrain as if they are a puppy (I think this was already mentioned).
     
  6. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Personally I would start with basic toilet training as you would a pup, and get rid of the training pads or paper if you are using it. If he has had paper of pads in the past it could be confusing him and acting as a cue that inside the house is an acceptable place to go.

    I would take him out every 30/45 minutes, if he starts to toilet, then use a cue word, used every time, he will eventually associate the word with toileting and you can use it later as a toilet command, when finished lots of praise and treats, to re-enforce its the correct place to go. Also take him out after eating, drinking, play and sleeping they usually need to go then. Look out for any circling, sniffing or scratching at the floor its usually a sign they need to go so get him out quick then. Any accidents clean with a special pet stain/odour remover as any smells left can encourage repeats. Dont tell him off for accidents as it can make them nervous about going in front of you or more likely to sneak off and do it.

    Crate training is only an aid to toilet training as the theory is that they will not soil their bed or surrounding area or where they eat, left too long in their and desparate they will have to go, and that can stress them out or start to become a habit. So he will need to still be taken out regularly and shown and taught where is acceptable.

    If he is going through the night fine, but if he isnt, then if he is within sight and sound of you I would pop him out if he wakes or stirs, if he isnt within sight and sound, then set an alarm and pop him out to see if he needs to go.
    Although a lot of intense work at first, Ive found that by consitently taking them out and giving every opportunity to only do it outside it works quite quickly.
     
  7. DataDave

    DataDave PetForums Newbie

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    Hi

    Thanks for the advice, we will remove the pads. He tends to poo when he cant find my wife. When she goes out he stresses and constantly looks for her. He still pees anywhere.
     
  8. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Might be as he had other dogs, and now he is truly alone when you are not there it is stressing him out. Old tricks for pups to re-assure them and that can help and may be worth trying is

    Leaving an old t-shirt or jumper you have worn in their beds as your smell can re-assure them. leaving a radio on a talking station down low as again the sound of voices can re-assure instead of silence, putting a large soft toy in their bed or a couple of smaller ones to cuddle up too. Using adaptil dog appeasing diffusers, works like a plug in air freshener but emits an artificial version of the pheromone mum emits to calm and sooth pups, good with things like fireworks and times of stress too I still use them now.
    Adaptil helps dogs and puppys learn settle travel and in kennels

    If you leave him in one room, with a solid door shut on him sometimes using a baby gate or dog control gate works better too as its not so isolating.

    Letting them have constant access to you all the time you are in can make them over dependant too, so that when you go out its too much of a contrast and they cant cope.

    Try setting up an area, and after a period of activity when he is more tired got rid of excess energy and more likely to settle, start leaving him for very short sessions while you are in. Just pop him in and leave him with an acitivity toy with food in it or a safe chew, and walk away no fuss nothing. You need to return before he gets stressed at first, just let him out no fuss saying nothing, leave it for another minute or two and then call him and loads of fuss and praise and treats, you then build the time up for these routine rest periods a little at a time so he learns to cope. Should make the transistion easier for when he does have to be entirely left alone. He will also learn that you leav ing means you will always be back, and as you are leaving him with something every time it also makes a good association with being left.
     
  9. DataDave

    DataDave PetForums Newbie

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    Alfie is doing better with his toilet training, now with the odd accident. He seems a bit quiet today. Maybe he is a little tired
    He hasnt been eating his dried food (wainwrights turkey and rice) as much the last few days but seems to eat bits of pasta. remember he was on raw food until we got him last sunday.

    Anyway, what tinned food do you recommend? I want to try and find something he is happy with.

    How do you know if they are unwell?
     
  10. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    If you want a wet food nature diet puppy is pretty good high meat content and all natural, you could even put a few spoonfuls in with the dried and mix it in so its coated in the meat, or even add a little warm water on top too to make a meaty gravy. Its a complete food in itself too.

    You can also try adding a little warm water to the dry kibble, and either letting it soak in a bit before serving, or just pour a little warm water on and serve straight away. Sometimes puppies eat it better that way then completely just dry, or at first anyway.

    If puppies become very quiet, depressed looking, lethargic and not interested in their surroundings that can be a sign of illness or if they are incubating something. Obviously things like diarrhoea speaks for itself or if they are vomitting or trying to vomit, although when a pup goes to his new home they can get a bit loose anyway, from stress of leaving mum and littermates, usually if they are otherwise well and lively in themselves and eating and drinking thats often all it is. Sudden abrubt changes of food especially on top of a move too can make them a bit loose too.

    It could be because he hasnt had dry food its not so platable or interesting to him, so maybe try the above suggestions.

    http://www.naturediet.co.uk/productspuppyjunior.html
     
  11. nunntom

    nunntom PetForums Newbie

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    Hi there,

    I am a little concerned about my Bichon. In the last couple of days she has had problems going to the toilet. When we are out and about she takes her regular position but nothing comes out, that also goes for when she is pooing. She seems ok in character, greeting people etc, but has started shaking as if something is bothering her insides. My immediate thought was Kidney stones, could it be something else and how can I help her get through it?
     
  12. Sled dog hotel

    Sled dog hotel PetForums VIP

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    Usually or most often with urinary tract infections it goes the other way, they pee more in frequency and quantity and lose control so cants always stop themselves so doesn't sound like the classic symptoms of that quite the opposite.

    If there is something obstructing the bladder or urinary tract like stones or crystals its possible that may be causing it. Difficulty urinating or the inability to pass urine is serious as toxins can build up and make them ill and cause further problems. The shaking may be due to discomfort pain or stress or a mixture of all three. She really does need to see a vet and urgently. If she does manage to pass anything, then take a sample if you can too, to save time.
     
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