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Bioflow magnetic collar

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by Paddypaws, Oct 13, 2010.


  1. Atlantys

    Atlantys PetForums Member

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    I agree completely.

    They do, but in haemoglobin, serum ferritin and haemosiderin, which are not forms that can be affected by ferromagnetism, thankfully, otherwise getting an MRI (which uses VERY strong magnets) would kill you.

    For a good link that cites the British Medical Journal's opinion on magnetic therapy, go here. If anyone wants access to other medical and scientific journal articles on the subject (available only with a subscription) please PM me and I'll send them on.
     
    #21 Atlantys, Oct 14, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2010
    BSH and hobbs2004 like this.
  2. pamela Renfrew

    pamela Renfrew PetForums Senior

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    When I put a Bioflow Collar on my old GSD... I almost immediately saw a difference.....and I use one myself for my tennis elbow which works wonders also.... They are pretty good and worth the money..... I would certainly recommend all Bioflow products..... Pamx
     
  3. Magnetic Health

    Magnetic Health PetForums Newbie

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    Left or right is fine.
     
  4. Dally Banjo

    Dally Banjo PetForums VIP

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    :thumbup: Thats great thanks it always end up there :eek: :rolleyes: :D
     
  5. bug_girl

    bug_girl PetForums Junior

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    I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but that is complete and utter nonsense - pseudoscience claptrap of the highest order.

    Red blood cells don't pulsate to release oxygen.

    Magnetic fields don't affect the clumping of blood cells. If they did they would increase the clumping of blood cells, not reduce it. (hold a magnet under a piece of paper sprinkled with iron filings - do the filings spread out or clump together?).

    As Atlantys points out - if red blood cells were magnetic, then putting a human (or any other animal) into an MRI would kill them instantly. The immense magnetic fields would literally tear them to shreds.

    If someone wants to live in la-la land and believe that the fairies at the bottom of the garden keep them safe at night and a fridge magnet taped to their forehead will cure their headaches then that's their business. However, if people are being encouraged to spend money on products on the basis of tosh like this, then it is unethical to let it go unchecked.
     
  6. Spellweaver

    Spellweaver PetForums VIP

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    Yes they do. "It is probable that as the RBC's age they become less deformable due to diminishing efficiency of ion pumping mechanisms" taken from Red Blood Cells Read and learn!

    Errrm - they can do both. You've obviously not played with an "Etch a Sketch" and pulled iron filing into straight lines with a magnet to make drawings :p


    Perhaps you ought to brush up a bit on your science before so rudely lecturing other people about theirs ;)
     
    #26 Spellweaver, Oct 24, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  7. bug_girl

    bug_girl PetForums Junior

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    Deformable does not mean "pulsating", it means "squashy". Red blood cells are deformable so they are able to squash up to pass through narrow blood vessels (e.g. the capilliaries in your lungs). As they age they become less able to do this, so your body recycles them after 100 days or so.


    Etch-a-scetch doesn't use magnets - they're filled with aluminium powder, which is non-magnetic. There are (or were) childs toys that used magnets to move iron filings around to draw things, but Etch-a-scetch isn't one of them. Also, these would be examples of clumping anyway - the iron filings are drawn to the point of the magnet, not pushed away from it.
     
  8. Kinjilabs

    Kinjilabs PetForums VIP

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    Yep they are brilliant, lots of my dogs have had them with great results:D
     
  9. Spellweaver

    Spellweaver PetForums VIP

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    So now you have proved your science education is lacking, you are trying to do the same with your English! Why would you think that someone who has a first class honours degree in English would think that "deformable" means pulsating? The relative word in the sentence is "pumping". A "pumping" action is a "pulsating" action.

    "It is probable that as the RBC's age they become less deformable due to diminishing efficiency of ion pumping mechanisms""

    No - the filings are lined up in the direction of the magnetic field, not clumped together (Shrugs) Basic science for 5 year olds. Read this for a bit of help if you are stuck.

    What are Magnets?
     
  10. Atlantys

    Atlantys PetForums Member

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    Not that I want to step into the crossfire here, but the "ion pump" that's being referred to in your source is the Na+/K+ pump (so sorry to use Wikipedia as a source, but it is very simplified and collated in one place).

    It's the exchange of sodium and potassium ions into and out of the blood cells' (and others, for that matter) membranes, and happens on an extremely small scale, much too small to cause any pulsation. The 'pump' is simply the idea of one type of ion entering the cell, and the other exiting the cell, not a physical action.

    We still don't know exactly why erythrocytes lose elasticity, but research seems mainly to be divided between the cause being the lipid bilayer or protein network scaffolds.
     
  11. bug_girl

    bug_girl PetForums Junior

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    I apologise. I picked up on "deformable" as the part of the quote that related to the RBCs changing shape. Though you could equally ask - why would I assume that someone thinks an ion pump involves a pulsating action? Either way - red blood cells don't pulsate.


    The iron filings start out all spread apart over the paper. When the magnet is applied, they move together. Whether they move together into lines or into a single clump depends on how the magnet is applied. Either way - the important part is that the filings move together rather than move apart.
     
  12. paws4training

    paws4training PetForums Newbie

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    My puppy has been wearing one for the last 4 months as he has elbow displacia and arthritis it has made a big difference already!:)
     
  13. Magnetic Health

    Magnetic Health PetForums Newbie

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    There's been some 'interesting' discussion but the results speak for themselves and for anyone who doesn't think Bioflow collars ease their dog/cat's condition return them within 90 days for a refund. It's either a 'cheap fix' or you get your money back. Where's the problem?
     
  14. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    There is a problem when people seek out these controversial remedies (from a scientific point of view) first because it is cheap. Saves them a trip to the vet to look for underlying medical reasons and treatment, which costs more money.
     
  15. Atlantys

    Atlantys PetForums Member

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    But isn't it amazing how all those 'cheap fixes', that have been proven to have absolutely no effect on health when submitted to actual, scientific, clinical, evidence-based tests instead of anecdotes, manage to add up to a billion dollar industry?

    Magnetic therapy does not work. It can not work, except to produce the placebo effect on the owners.

    "The problem", as you put it, is when you advocate that the owners of an animal that is in pain do absolutely nothing useful to actually help them, and so the animal suffers while the owner's conscience about it is appeased.

    Obviously, because of your conflict of interest caused by you selling the product, your morality and testimony on the subject are somewhat questionable, and you obviously don't see this as a "problem". I do. I have no such interests, I am simply extremely concerned about owners being sucked in by pseudo-scientific nonsense, leaving their animals in pain and discomfort.

    By suggesting that they should put a magnet on the collar of their cat or dog instead of treating them medically, I believe that you are being extremely irresponsible, if not negligent.

    By the way, I don't know about UK law on the subject, but in the US magnet therapy product advertising may not make any medical claims whatsoever, because the FDA does not permit the advertising of unfounded claims, and there are no founded claims for magnet therapy.

    BBC NEWS | Health | Magnet therapies 'have no effect'

    Magnet therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Animal Magnetism – Bad Science
     
    #35 Atlantys, Oct 26, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
    hobbs2004 likes this.
  16. Spellweaver

    Spellweaver PetForums VIP

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    You are wrong to state this. Some tests have been inconclusive, some have been very conclusive. Some of these have been very high profile, such as Maudsleys Hospital in London trialling the use of magnetic therapy (funded by the UK Department of Health) in depression:

    magnetic therapy for depression



    This is your opinion which you have a right to voice. However, it is neither borne out by the majority of evidence on the subject, nor by the actual results people have found by using these devices. Have a look at this:

    How Bioflow works

    In additon, there are lots of references here from the Magnetic Therapy Council for those of you who would like a less blinkered view than that of Atlantys:

    Magnetic therapy research



    How dare you insinuate something like this? :eek: :mad: :mad: You know nothing at all about me and yet you feel qualified say things like this - hmmm. Very similar to your take on magnetic therapay, methinks! Just who on earth do you think you are to cast these sorts of aspersions on my integrity and morality? :mad: :mad: I no longer sell these products, but when I did I was being neither irresponsible nor negligent nor immoral. The people and animals I sold magnetic products to were turning to magnetic therapy because conventional therapy was not working. In most cases it was being bought to use as an adjunct to conventional therapy, not a replacement. In ALL cases where medical/veterinary help had not already been sought, I used to advise going to the GP/Vet asap.

    Because of personal circumstances I no longer sell these products, and so, like you, I have no interests in promoting magnetic therapy. However, what concerns me most about your virulent and abusive attack is that a lot of people and animals have found relief through magnetic therapy, a relief which you are trying to deny them just because of your own personal beliefs. Now that is definitely highly irresponsible and immoral on an open forum such as this.

    No, you DON'T know about UK law on the subject. Thankfully, here in the UK we don't operate with such closed minds as yours. Bioflow products are registered as Class 1 medical devices and, as stated above, the Department of Health are funding research into magnestic therapy for treatment of depression.

    You are entitled to your opinion, but the majority of the evidence disagrees with your opinion. And certainly the majority of people on here who have used the products have found great benefit from their use. You can deny magnetic therapy works until you are blue in the face. You'll never convince the thousands for whom magnetic therapy has transformed either theirs or their animals' lives.
     
    #36 Spellweaver, Oct 26, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
    Dally Banjo likes this.
  17. Paddypaws

    Paddypaws PetForums VIP

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    As I started this thread, I suppose I should stick my head above the parapet and give an update.
    Nellie does seem to be moving round a little more freely and I think her limp is less pronounced. She has certainly made several 'jumps' between furniture which she has not attempted for some time.
    Nellie is also taking several neutraceutical ( sp ?? ) supplements and is of course under close supervision from my vet with regular medical checks.
    Thanks to all who have added replies to this post.In my original post I did ask for personal experiences, rather than a scientific critique, and I am somewhat saddened that this thread...like several others on this forum recently...seems to have degenerated into a slanging match in places.:frown:
     
  18. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    Yes, but both sides of the story can produce evidence to back up their claims. For example, reviews of the scientific literature have been very conclusive: It doesn't work. Here is a quote from one done in 2006

    Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. If there is any healing effect of magnets, it is apparently small since published research, both theoretical and experimental, is weighted heavily against any therapeutic benefit. Patients should be advised that magnet therapy has no proved benefits. If they insist on using a magnetic device they could be advised to buy the cheapest—this will at least alleviate the pain in their wallet.
    from: Feingold and Flamm (2006): http://www.dcscience.net/finegold-flamm-bmj-06.pdf

    To be fair, just because the NHS is making something available as part of its repetoire doesn't mean that it has passed medical muster. Homeopathy is an alternative treatment also available, that has got equally dubious claims and little scientific evidence to back up but that is a completely different debate.

    My point is that you can find information to back up either claim. And that is highlighted by my next point too:


    You know, I would put so much more stock in their research section if they had taken the time to also list those studies that have not found any outcomes whatsoever. I would bet that those studies outweigh those that do find some effect. As such, it is a very one-sided picture that they are presenting.

    Also, this list seems to contain quite a few newspaper articles. Well, I think we all know how little journalists are trained in reporting medical findings.
     
    #38 hobbs2004, Oct 26, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  19. Atlantys

    Atlantys PetForums Member

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    As I told you when I PMd you and apologised for offending you Spellweaver, my intention was not to address you at all, and certainly not to insult you.

    I was responding to the Bioflow magnetic salesperson who said something to the effect that "it's a cheap fix or you get your money back, so what's the problem". That's the attitude I object to, and I think any pet owner on this board should object to this attitude from anyone purporting to offer healthcare to their pets.

    I'm sorry, I don't have time to do much more than link to a few journal articles now, but I am afraid that the majority of research does not disagree with me. In face, it's the evidence that I'm basing my assessment on, not anecdotes.

    The second source you quote "How Bioflow works" is a sales pitch. It cites no sources and has no basis in medical fact. It is simply an advertisement.

    I also think you may have misunderstood the study you cited to support your argument. It is actually irrelevant to your argument, as it does something very different from what you claim Bioflow does. It uses extremely strong transcranial electromagnets magnets placed directly on the skull, penetrating very specific parts of the brain to alter mood. This has nothing to do with an extremely weak Bioflow-type magnet placed on a collar or wrist, supposedly magnetising your blood.

    Also, you probably won't be pleased to hear that the study itself had this to say about their tests:
    Emphasis my own.

    It's difficult to find scientific literature on the subject that doesn't require an academic subscription, but I'll try to find some that are open to the public.

    Magnet Therapy: Healing or Hogwash? Bruce L. Flamm, MD Editorial from the journal Anaesthesia and Analgesia.

    Static Magnetic Therapy Does Not Decrease Pain or Opioid Requirements: A Randomized Double-Blind Trial. M. Soledad Cepeda, MD, PhD, et al. Article about magnets lack of efficacy on pain relief from the journal Anaesthesia and Analgesia.

    Comparative effect of positive and negative static magnetic fields on heart rate and blood pressure in healthy adults. Martha R Hinman Article showing a lack of effect of magnets on heart rate and blood pressure from the journal Clinical Rehabilitation.

    Effects of Permanent Magnets on Resting Skin and Blood Perfusion in Healthy Persons Assessed by Laser Doppler Flowmetry and Imaging. H.N Mayrovitz, et al. Article stating there is no more blood in the skin in areas in contact with magnets than those without, from the journal Bioelectromagnetics.

    I am not attempting to enter a mudslinging match, and I respect your right to have your opinion.

    I simply reserve the right to base my own opinion on evidence, and if and when the evidence proves my opinion wrong, I will change it.
     
    #39 Atlantys, Oct 26, 2010
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  20. Jackie99

    Jackie99 PetForums VIP

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    Sorry to bump such a very old thread but I am currently looking into getting one of these for my dog who is starting to show some stiffness in his leg especially after laying down a lot. Ii was wondering where is the cheapest place to purchase one from as they do seem pricey! :)
     
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