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Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by Tim14, Jan 27, 2021.


  1. Tim14

    Tim14 PetForums Newbie

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    My working cocker spaniels have had a lovely little of 5 pups and are all thriving. This is our first and planned litter, we are wanting to know the advice of some experienced breeders.

    We will not be letting them go to their forever home until they are fully vaccinated but is there a real difference between 10 weeks and 12 weeks old? I know 10 weeks is the height of the fear period.

    Also, other than general care, is there any extra things that will help with the puppies development that you can suggest?

    Thanks
     
  2. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    You really need to let them go at 8 weeks so that they go through the period where they are most receptive in their new home. I would not consider taking a puppy from a breeder that was holding on to them that long. I rather think you will want them away by 8 weeks anyway. There is so much that can be done with them between 8 and 12 weeks, have you planned to take them out individually in the car, carry them individually out and about, get them house trained and lead trained and crate trained. Personally I would rather get the vaccinations done myself too and certainly not heard of breeders giving more than the first vaccine at 8 weeks just before they go. You need to microchip them at 8 weeks too.
     
  3. Tim14

    Tim14 PetForums Newbie

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    Our vets have suggested that fully vaccinating them is better as it removes the risk of different brand vaccinations causing issues and the risk that new families will not vacinate them.

    They will have their chip with first vaccine.

    Yes, they will be out in the car (not considered alone that is a good idea) and lead trained. Normal house training and crate training will be done too. Dont know if we can do more to help them learn early on.
     
  4. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel Banned

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  5. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel Banned

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    For working cockers you could also get them started on whistle training before they go to their new homes.
     
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  6. Tim14

    Tim14 PetForums Newbie

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    Really helpful that, thank you. Feel that the socialising may be difficult with enough people with lockdown rules. Need to steal some children from our friends when we are aloud.
     
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  7. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel Banned

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    Yes, extremely difficult during a lockdown but so vital if you are keeping the pups til 12 weeks. Any owner would be delighted to have a pup socialised to that degree and it would save so many problems down the line if it were possible to do everything in that vid!

    Im not a breeder and neither of mine had as good a start as that - but i would have been delighted if they had! I got mine at 8 weeks of age and followed the dunbar methods of house training and chew toy training and i have 2 really good dogs in the house. Really good.

    Not quite as perfect out of it, it has to be said but they are both friendly and confident to all people - probably as i followed dunbar's methods.

    Certainly a few things to be getting on with anyway :)
     
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  8. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    I would prefer they were not vaccinated at all as I would rather my vet did them with the vaccine that they use. There is a massive difference between an 8 week puppy and a 12 week puppy. At 8 weeks they are blobs just starting to investigate and learn what life is about , which is why that is when they need to be in their new homes so they learn what their new life is about - and at 12 weeks they are well developed characters. My puppies that I have bred were more than ready to go at 8 weeks. I think the mothers would be horrified to still have the little monsters around at 12 weeks. Not sure how on earth you would have time in a day to socialise and train 5 puppies to the extent they would get it in their new home during that important time. I have had a pup at 10 weeks because I had to organise fetching her. The other pups went at 8 weeks and so my pup had a wonderful grounding with an excellent breeder and was used to being on her own, crate trained, lead trained and car trained and virtually house trained. In reality it would be impossible to do that with 5 puppies. You also have to consider that some pups will be spending time in towns and meeting a lot of traffic, others will be in the country and need to be around livestock etc. Some owners will want their pup off the lead from day one and others will prefer them to be on the lead. You really need to put a bit more thought into it and not listen to your vet who is only thinking about the vaccine and not the whole thing.
     
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  9. Siskin

    Siskin Look into my eyes....

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    My preference to is to have an unvaccinted puppy at 8 weeks and start the vaccinations course at 9-10 weeks when the maternal antibodies will be waning and not affect the vaccination from ‘taking’. I’ve done this with every puppy I’ve had, none have fallen sick and have thrived.
     
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  10. Sarah H

    Sarah H Grand Empress of the Universe

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    Unless the breeder is excellent I'd want my pup at 8 weeks. And at the moment there's no way a breeder is going to be able to do the socialisation a young pup needs with every single pup in the litter. I don't know how old your pups are yet, but when they get past about 5 weeks they become really hard work and I'd be surprised if you and your poor bitch will want them all still with you! Much better to ask the owners what they want - I'm assuming you have your owners all lined up and ready, and you are there to help pick the right pup for them. In which case ask them what they want. I'd rather have my pup and get it out and training with me asap, and get the vaccs myself.
     
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  11. McKenzie

    McKenzie PetForums VIP

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    Puppy Culture (Jane Killion) recommend keeping puppies to 10 weeks as they say the fear period is strongest at 8 weeks. However, 8 weeks is more common as by then pups need a lot more attention (training/socialisation). I collected my Wheaten at 10 weeks, but only because I fully trusted what the breeder was doing with them.

    Puppy Culture is a whole program that starts at birth, but it might give you some ideas on what you can do for the development of your pups.
     
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  12. Sheltie2021

    Sheltie2021 PetForums Member

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    he makes it sound like any pup not meeting 100 people by 8 weeks will turn out with problems surely if that was the case all dogs born during the pandemic would be or am I hearing that wrong
    Everything else he says makes sense
     
  13. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel Banned

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    It is 100 people by 12 weeks. That is the age that the window for puppies accepting all kinds of people closes.

    This is not an accepted way to go about things on pf. I have mentioned it before and it has attracted much scoffing and ridicule.

    However, i managed the 100 people by 12 weeks very easily (the breeder started it and then i picked my pups up at 8 weeks and completed it)


    And i have 2 lovely dogs.

    Yes, i think we will see huge problems a year or so from now with a massive increase in reactive and agressive unfriendly dogs out and about. Just the normal things of going to puppy classes and getting plenty of experiences are difficult to impossible during a pandemic.
     
  14. Sheltie2021

    Sheltie2021 PetForums Member

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    Oh OK that could be problematic for me I don't have friend I'm kinda a hermit but do have family and oh family but that's only 22 people including me oh and our 3
    Yes I don't know how anyone could have socialised a pup enough during this
    That's one of the main reason we're waiting
     
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  15. tabelmabel

    tabelmabel Banned

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    It isnt anything like as daunting as it sounds in normal times - everyone loves to see a pup. All you do is take a pocketful of kibble about with you and anyone that looks longingly at your pup - just invite them to give a piece of kibble and a few kind words.

    It really is just to get the pup familiar with lots of different kinds of folks - kids, hat wearers, spec wearers, wheelchair users etc etc. You just want your pup to know that people arent scary before the window of opportunity closes.

    It just isnt possible to do this is a lockdown though.
     
  16. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    I also have two lovely dogs.

    They didn't go to puppy classes or meet 100 people whilst very young. Fine if you want to do this, but, not necessary IMO and there is no reason why any dog should become reactive/unfriendly/aggressive because they were socialised differently.
     
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  17. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    Personally, I would never have kept a litter until they were twelve weeks of age, neither would I have waited that long when taking a pup from someone else.

    I see no benefit at all in that.
     
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  18. Siskin

    Siskin Look into my eyes....

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    About the only breed that it is recommended to keep on to 12 weeks is the chihuahua which is a slow maturing very small dog
     
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  19. Tim14

    Tim14 PetForums Newbie

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    Some are going to family members and currently having them with us they will get more attention and training with me and my partner both being at home all the time. They are only two weeks so it may change my opinion on homing date when they get a little more active.

    I have read so much differing options on the net stating between 8 and 12 week best for the pups and only want to do the best for them.

    The ones that will not be staying in the family I will ask the new owners the question but need to give them good advice too although not advertised them yet. Again waiting to see how they develop.
     
  20. Sairy

    Sairy PetForums VIP

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    If you are planning to keep them until 12 weeks old then you need to do a heck of a lot of work with them with regards to socialisation. Just taking them out in the car is not enough - they need to be introduced to traffic, different types of flooring, novel sights and objects, different sounds, people, other dogs. There is a lot of work to do and that will be a tall order with a whole litter. Presumably the puppies new owners will be around for most of the time, at least for the first few weeks, so they will undoubtedly have more time to devote to this than you will.

    If you don't want to risk them not being able to get the same brand of vaccination for their second dose then you are better off not vaccinating at all and letting them go at 8 weeks.
     
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