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Behavioural analysis

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by Nonnie, Jun 5, 2010.


  1. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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  2. leashedForLife

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    great clip! :thumbup: i have to run errands, but will come back to parse some of it -
    it STARTS-out as terrific play, but ends with a lot of body-blocking by ? Oscar? in the body-harness
    + look-aways / tail-drops by the ACD x Husky... hes being controlled, the role-swapping stopped.

    later,
    --- terry
     
  3. leashedForLife

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    0:00 - ACD-x is just coming up from a play-bow; front low, forelegs wide;
    pit-type is wagging spine-high in wide, curvy arcs (loose tail), body is balanced on all 3 feet, head + gaze slightly to left of buddys,
    eyes are slightly-squinted (relaxed, goes with a smile) mouth cannot be seen.

    paused the action at 3-secs:
    ACD-x is frozen, wt on rear/forelegs slanted back, tail extremely high + latter-third is bristled;
    ears are rotated 1/3 back + out/upright; slight hackling over shoulders; both dogs can be heard to pant, but neither face
    is visible (commissures, brows, tongue, eyes, whisker-pads...)

    ACD-x races off, followed by pit-type;
    0:14, ACD-x is racing back from the curve - 0:16 crossing from left of track to right, body very-loose (rocking-horse gait)
    tail level with spine; runs around camera-view, reverses, at 0:21 he is almost back to pit-type still returning from curve;
    0:23 he has done a small circle + half-bowed - tail loose and waving wide, very open + bouncy body;
    0:25, he has passed the pit-type + is running past the far-curve again, pitty in pursuit;
    0:26, ACD-x has swept left, U-turned and is returning - pitty is reversing to follow...

    i note that the vocalisations don;t start till the pied-dog arrives on scene, and the pied-dog actually splits a slightly
    fraught moment of pending confrontation by doing a deliberate split, then sniffing the ACD-x rather intrusively,
    which kinda forces him to stand still, and holds-off the pitty.

    NOTICE ** when ** the vocalizations tend to occur - just after the pitty STOPS BREATHING -
    a definite sign of tension + changing emotions.

    i;d say the pitty gets frustrated by the ACD-x speeding + begins to get over-controlling -
    body-blocking the path, head-over his shoulders, grabbing and mouthing his shoulders or spine above ribs,
    much more upright + stiff in posture, lip-licking, weight on fore, tail jacked-up.

    its still play... but if the ACD-x was not relatively tolerant, this could easily spill over into a spat.
    the early-on swap of who is chasing + the nice loose curvy body-language is gone.

    just my impression,
    --- terry
     
  4. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    Thanks Terry, that was very interesting.

    How would you deal with such a situation? Would you allow the dogs to carry on and sort themselves out or intervene?

    In a house/flat situation, they both ignore each other. Its only on a walk when Oscar spends the entire time blocking Slow from moving forward or trying to lean over his shoulders, which makes Slow snap at him. I do think he gets frustrated at not being able to physically keep up.

    One thing i find interesting also, is that despite Oscar's harassing behaviour, Slow constantly intigates play with him, and will seemingly stand and wait for him to catch up.

    Also, Slow constantly carries his tail erect, even within his own home. Ive never actually seen it down. He seldom wags it either.
     
  5. leashedForLife

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    hey, nonnie! :--)

    i would try to teach Oscar other coping skills - interrupt when he starts the over-controlling by briefly leashing, ask him for some
    simple behaviors + get him un-wound + happy again, and turn him loose.

    asking both dogs to do something else would work as well -
    IF Oscar can sit-stay, i would try taking turns playing Fetch with each dog singly; this eliminates the risk of either one
    trying to grab the toy, or molest the possessor of it.
    i would probably use calmatives, too. [post #22 of the dog-body-lang sticky]

    interesting that they are good together in other settings, where the runaways are not possible.
    i did notice that Slow *tries* to de-escalate, standing, looking-away, turning with his shoulder facing Oscar (no threat vs Face-On mouth tight = threat), but it does not work; Oscar keeps repeating the shoulder-bite, shove, stand-over, etc.
    some dogs are not very waggy by nature - but he does not seem at all un-social, he is forgiving + does re-engage without much violence.

    i cannot tell from behind, many of the shots are only b/c of the POV, but i suspect a Nordic was the other parent -
    but definitely ACD on one side, IMO.

    cheers,
    --- terry
     
  6. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    I can't bring toys into the equation with Oscar. He has an attitude that all toys/sticks/anything that can be chewed/ carried belong to him. Only with other dogs, he's not a resource guarder with people, nor my other dog.

    He's a very dominant dog when it comes to others, but for the most part ignores other dogs. Ones he does meet he either sniffs then moves off, or tries to mount them or lean over their shoulders. Its the odd one or two that he becomes fixated with, and at this point all training goes out the window and he gets tunnel vision. He's very "game" in his behaviour, although has never been outwardly aggressive, just relentless.

    He was much better today, i body blocked him a few times and verbally corrected him (he knows "no") and after awhile he seemed to lose interest as he pottered off and did his own thing.


    Slow has a black tongue and rear due claws. His export certificate states a chow mix, which im assuming is guessed due to his tounge colour as i really cant see chow in him at all. He comes from China originally.

    He is very dog savvy, so ideal for my nervous boy with whom he gets on brilliantly, and very tolerant of Oscar's OTT behaviour.
     
  7. leashedForLife

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    hmmm - i could see a smooth-coat Chow fitting in there, yeah. :huh:

    interesting - my Akita was not a very waggy dog, but was tolerant of OTT-aggro dogs so long as they were not an active threat -
    if the screaming, swearing, lunging dog was behind a door, inside a fence or car, on a leash, etc, she could huff on her nails + buff them, or examine cloud-shapes to see what they might resemble... ;)
    yes, he is that. :) how long have they been doing this?

    - t
     
  8. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    Slow was a street dog for the first year or so of his life, so i wonder if that has helped with his actions and reactions around other dogs.

    Do you mean how long have they been walking with each other? That video was the first time they had ever walked together, although Slow knows and walks regularily with my other dog. Today was the seconfd day, and they've known each other since thursday.
    Oscar missed out on socialisation as a pup, and i will admit i avoid walking him off lead with other dogs due to his full on behaviour. He isnt aggressive as such, but seems to have the ability to push other dogs into reacting.

    Ive not heard of a smooth coated chow *Googles*
     
  9. dimkaz

    dimkaz PetForums VIP

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    very interesting...
    i would put in the equation that the three legged dog is trying to understand why the dark one is so bouncy and does so a bit too forceful for my liking,

    i would say, translated in human language:
    dark dog: hey lets play
    oscar: i don;t know how you play (never played with you before or something similar...)
    dark dog: i'll start
    oscar: let's try
    ...other dogs appears and jumps in a bit forcefully
    oscar: now calm down
    darker dog: get off me both of you
    oscar: i said calm down...
    other dog goes out of the picture and the darker dog does not like the "calm down action!" of oscar and it escalates a bit too much for me.

    i hope is not a too simplistic description of how i see the development of the situation... i like to put it always in my terms so i can understand it myself

    re. what would i do...
    i would have stopped the other dog to butt in the situazione and let oscar and the darker dog acquainted much better before adding too much stress...

    and what Terry says seems very sensible too
    best
    D
     
  10. leashedForLife

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    WoW! that was their first-walk? ay-yi, he IS tolerant... i thought they had known one another for months,
    if not years, and he expected Oscar to be an utter *%$#@! :lol: extra-marks to Slow for being incredibly forgiving,
    despite the increasingly-pestiferous in-ya-face behaviors.


    i don;t really think its an accident - he gives the impression of *wanting* to escalate things, and just looking for the opp -
    a cross-word, a wrong-look, anything. ;) he seems to be spoiling for a fight, but just does not want to make the first
    serious assault, so he provokes like a kid with a stick at a beehive.

    U would think if he had learnt nothing else by now, it would be don;t do that... :eek:
    but it does not seem so.

    he;s a real challenge,
    --- terry
     
  11. Nonnie

    Nonnie PetForums VIP

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    Now thats what ive often thought. Yet on the few occasions where he has either pushed a dog into snapping, or has actually been attacked (he's had a couple of unprovoked scuffles) he hasnt actually retaliated and done nothing more than had a good bark with a lot of teeth on show and gutteral noises.

    He's had a westie clamped to his loose neck skin, and he pranced around like a fairy.

    Oh and a challenge he has been, and im sure he will always be one. Always have to be on my toes with the little sod.
     
  12. leashedForLife

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    eek! seeing him with a Westie dangling like the bling on a bad-boys neck would have given me a turn -
    thank heaven he was not feeling argumentative.

    he likes to push his bounds, the little tyke - testing the opposition. ;) i am sure he keeps U busy!
    --- terry
     
  13. sequeena

    sequeena PetForums VIP

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    This is how Candy plays with my other two. I put it down to typical terrier behaviour but when it gets too much (lots of blocking, paws up on the dogs back, pinning etc) I call her off.
     
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