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Begging for food (Unleashed a flerken)

Discussion in 'Cat Health and Nutrition' started by TaffyApple, Jul 17, 2020.


  1. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    Since Yoko came to me, I feed her every 6 hours or so. I don't know much about how she was fed in her old home but I suspect, based on her behaviour, free-feeding along with owner's leftovers. Giving her 4 meals a day reduced her begging practically overnight. She only begs first thing in the morning because her lazy servant won't wake up.

    Earlier this week, I began step 1 of moving Yoko onto better food (introducing her to wet version of satiety.) I worked out her allowance based on the guidelines from Royal Canin for cats eating a mix of both dry and wet at her current weight. Technically, she's getting slightly more food to make it easier to portion out the meals but not enough to reverse her weight loss.

    Since the switch, her begging has gone into overdrive roughly every 3-4 hours. If it was just a case of puss in boots eyes and staring longingly at my food, I could deal but she knows this does not work. She misbehaves. She will scratch things she shouldn't even if there is a perfectly good scratching post right by it or tries to break into my kitchen or bathroom where she's not allowed unless I'm in there too. She will also try and munch on plastic if she can get her mitts on it which is concerning (I'm praying she hasn't actually eaten any while I sleep.)

    Everything I've read about stopping begging says to ignore negative behaviour so you don't reinforce it but that's not so easy when she goes on her "I'm hungry servant" rampage. She's still not a fan of toys so trying to redirect that energy positively is a big nope.

    Need help to nip this in the bud please.
     
  2. Arny

    Arny PetForums Senior

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    Royal canin isn't a good food, its the equivalent of felix/whiskers just with a bigger price tag.
    Have you looked at the pinned zooplus food thread? Even if you don't buy from zooplus it'll show what to look for on food labels.
    Its likely when on a higher protein diet it'll make here feel more satisfied.
     
  3. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    So the TLDR version of the story I've previously shared on the forum was that she was on Royal Canin Satiety when I adopted her. It was prescribed for her by a vet for weight loss purposes. I've acknowledged that it's not great food and vets aren't perfect but I didn't really want to be getting her off the food the rescue centre vet prescribed her on before I got her registered at my vet. I've had to delay a vet visit following her reaction trying to get her into a carrier.

    I didn't know what weight she was at now because I didn't have scales, couldn't get her to the vet and she was running out of food. I started to get overwhelmed by trying to figure out which food to switch her over to, how much to give her etc. So the plan, made with help from the forum (mostly @chillminx), has been getting her onto the wet of satiety and then once I'm better equipped, move her over to good food.
     
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  4. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    @TaffyApple - thank you for the update. Maybe you need to feed her more of the wet food to stop her getting hungry.. The wet version of the Satiety is much lower in calories than the dry food. How many pouches a day are you feeding her atm ?
     
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  5. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    I'm inclined to agree based on the maths I've been doing this evening. I think I worked out her allowance wrong and where I thought she was getting more, she's getting less. As there is no 5kg allowance on the guidelines, I did:

    Mix Start 4kg (28g) + Mix Start 6kg (44g) / 2 = 36g dry + 1 x 85g pouch wet.
    Calories wise this works out at (36*3.113)+(85*0.66) = 168 calories per day

    Previously, she was on 60g dry which is 187 calories.

    As an aside, I don't know where the rescue vet got 60g from for her allowance based on this.

    On cue, she's gone into rampage mode and broken into the kitchen while I've typed this so I better go sort before she eats the recycling bag.

    EDIT: Attached the wet only guidelines.
     

    Attached Files:

    #5 TaffyApple, Jul 17, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
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  6. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    After the posts on Friday, I have increased her dry allowance (given I am close to finishing that bag up) to 40g which takes her to 181 calories per day.

    Whether it's early days I cannot say but she is still begging for food every 3-4 hours. I've also had a couple of incidents where I feed her and 10 minutes after she's done eating, she's back giving me the puss in boots eyes or trying to break into my kitchen. With the plastic munching, I've tried to redirect her to some plastic cat toys I got but no dice.

    I would like to get her back to normal (4 meals per day) because the idea of trying to divide her meals up further isn't appealing. As things stand, her food barely covers the bottom of her dish without dividing it up more.

    As an aside, the Feliway plugin I got to settle her in is due to run out (unless it finished early.) Could this potentially be a factor?
     
  7. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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    @TaffyApple - I have never heard of Feliway having an effect upon appetite, but I suppose if the cause of the food obsession is anxiety related then it's possible Feliway may be helping to calm the cat, I've never had any success with Feliway for any of my cats, past or present so I may not be the best person to comment, LOL.

    181 calories a day is not a lot for an adult cat. Can you remind me how much she weighs now and what her age is?

    An adult cat weighing 4.2 kg will need 247 calories a day. Even when dieting for weight loss they will need 197 calories a day,

    Is she not getting too thin on only 181 calories a day?

    Also bear in mind that some calories are digested more slowly than others. Fat is digested slowly as is protein. The RC satiety wet food is very low in fat, too low really for a healthy adult cat. I find mine need at least 4% fat in their foods.

    One of my cats who has severe food allergies is on an 8 week elimination diet of kangaroo atm, which is very low in fat and she gets hungry every hour or so. I have to feed her, it would be unfair not to, because at present I haven't found a safe source of fat I can add to her food.

    Maybe you could add a little bit of goose fat to your girl's meals and see if it helps her feel satisfied for longer.
     
  8. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    She's 6.

    I managed to weigh her this week. She wriggled but she's around the 5.15kg mark from what I can gather. She was 5.2kg and assessed as being a 7/9 on body conditioning in May which was the last time she saw the rescue centre vet. (S)he set the goal of 5kg. I cannot see a visible difference in her weight since she came to me (and of course I've been taking lots of pictures.)

    This is from Zooplus' page on the Satiety dry. I'm not sure where they got these amounts from but according to this, she'd be on 177 or 152 calories. Eeek!
    2020-07-19 (2).png
    The sooner she's off this food the better - it's causing me nothing but worry that I'm doing the wrong thing. It doesn't help that I couldn't get her to the vet for them to check her over.
     
  9. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    Apologies for the double post - I have an update. I reached out to Royal Canin prior to creating this thread as they will help you work out allowances for cats on satiety based on your cat's weigh, body score etc. I didn't tell them what I was giving her, just asked for their recommendation and it finally arrived this afternoon. They say:

    Dry: 55g Wet: 3 pouches Mix: 1 pouch and 36g dry daily

    If you have been following along, the mix allowance is the same as what I was giving her when I unleashed the bottomless pit. :Banghead:Banghead:Banghead

    Yoko is also having her say. She's clearly more interested in the wet than dry now. I've taken her to 2 pouches of wet and decreased the dry accordingly. She still wants food every 3-4 hours. I have just accepted this as my new normal.

    So a couple of things I could do with suggestions for:

    1. A timed feeder that can safely store wet food (that isn't going to break my purse) so I can increase the number of meals she's getting while getting a good night's sleep.

    2. Treat or dry food that will be healthier than what she's on. The only real exercise she's getting at the moment is from her treat dispenser. I am also using the dry to help carrier train her.

    Still not sure what food I'm going to switch her over to at present. I was looking at KatKin for a while but I had to veto that idea because it needs to be stored in a freezer and mine is tiny. I barely have enough space for my food. It's also kinda pricey for my budget. I'm aware of the zooplus sticky thread but just find it a little overwhelming because there are so many options ;)
     
  10. chillminx

    chillminx PetForums VIP

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  11. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    @chillminx Thank you for your suggestions! Super helpful. I'm looking at the Thrive stuff now. I haven't found any calorie information but I'll take to google and find it. The ingredients list alone looks promising though.

    I'm going to leave her at 2 pouches for now only because otherwise I'll burn through her wet food supply before I've decided on her permanent food and end up in the same boat I was when she was running out of the dry. I've been looking into Lily's Kitchen and at the moment, I think its the front runner.

    I'm so indecisive - its beyond silly at this point. I imagine some people coming to this thread just want to scream at me "Just pick something already!" I just don't want to do the wrong thing for my girl. She's already been through enough recently.

    AnguishedElementaryGraywolf-small.gif
     
  12. ebonycat

    ebonycat PetForums VIP

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    Animonda vom feinsten for neutered cats (sold at Zooplus), is a good healthy food, maybe try her on that.
     
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  13. SbanR

    SbanR PetForums VIP

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    @TaffyApple if you're looking at Lily's Kitchen, have a look at Rosie's Farm on ZP. It's a pate texture too
    Wild Freedom is another good one.
    Both good value for money and owned by ZP; and you often find them on offer:)
     
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  14. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    Thanks for the suggestions. I decided to bite the bullet and make a decision today on what I've going to try her on. I've been so indecisive and if I keep this up, she'll be out of wet food before I know it and stuck on the satiety for longer. I have been working my way through the sticky thread and keeping the tab open for foods that I am interested in though I'm picky so I don't have much. The suggestions overnight have been helpful :) Thank you.

    I couldn't find any analytical breakdown of Rosie's Farm either on Zooplus or searching Google unless it's really hidden but Wild Freedom is a contender. I also like the sound of Animonda vom feinsten for neutered cats though I wonder if she'll get bored of just turkey. The other one that I've been exploring is Catz Finefood though if I've been doing the sums right Wild Freedom would work out slightly cheaper.

    I couldn't find any analytical on the Thrive treats that @chillminx suggested. I tried the Thrive website and other sites which sells them. I'd be reluctant to get any without being confident on being able to adjust her allowances accordingly. Even though they sound brilliant.
     
  15. SbanR

    SbanR PetForums VIP

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    Honestly, I think you're getting yourself tangled up with numbers.
    Be more relaxed and go by @chillminx suggestion; i.e. weigh regularly and adjust the amount fed accordingly. Relax!:)
     
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  16. SbanR

    SbanR PetForums VIP

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  17. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    Hehe. I cannot argue with that. Unfortunately, its who I am. TLDR, I'm neurodiverse with anxiety issues to boot. I have coping methods to deal with situations like this but it been a little harder because whatever decision I make affects my gorgeous cat not me. I also want to make sure I'm prepped for any confrontation down the road with the vets for taking her off the food she was prescribed.

    But don't worry, I know I'm being a bit much hence sorting this today. :)
     
  18. SbanR

    SbanR PetForums VIP

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    But your vet won't be able to argue much when your cat starts to lose weight on your choice of wet food:)
     
  19. TaffyApple

    TaffyApple Yoko's Servant

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    Too true. My order is placed. I went with the Catz Finefood in the end. I got 2 of the trial packs. I also took the risk of getting those Thrive treats. Worse case, I can pass them along to one of my neighbours who has cats.

    Thank you again to everyone who has helped out. You have the patience of saints.
     
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  20. SbanR

    SbanR PetForums VIP

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    Let us know how you get on:)
    And if Yokohama agrees with your choice:p
     
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