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Bad month to be a Butcher ( Warning )

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by rottiepointerhouse, Apr 11, 2019.


  1. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    3 studies out this month showing the health risks of consuming red meat (not just processed meat but plain old red meat).

    Short (4 minute) video explaining them by Dr Joel Kahn cardiologist



    I'm more than happy to continue the discussion about the ethics of consuming animal products which we had started on the other now closed thread too if desired.
     
  2. Lurcherlad

    Lurcherlad PetForums VIP

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    FWIW (following on from the closed thread) I went dairy and egg free after reading some of your posts on the subjects, many months ago ;)

    Unless people hear the nasty truths about the livestock farming industry, they can’t make informed decisions.

    I could no longer ignore that which I already knew and was horrified at some new details that I truly was unaware of :(

    I confess to skimming over the content (as I can find it harrowing :() but caught enough details to turn me.
     
  3. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Thank you, that has made my day :) (not the harrowing bit obviously).
     
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  4. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    Same. I stopped dairy a while back because of rph’s threads. That’s why I’d rather see it behind spoilers or with warnings, than gone altogether and the threads locked.

    Some people might be upset, but these threads save lives.
     
  5. AlexPed2393

    AlexPed2393 PetForums VIP

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    I have definitely decreased my meat intake since reading through the threads, we now see it as a major treat, this means we can get it from a local farm shop where I know where the animals came from.

    Overall I do find that my weight drops quicker when eating less meat, but I am unsure as to whether it's because starchier products seem to go better with it. Either way I feel better for drastically decreasing my meat intake, which was every day to 2-3 days a week.
     
  6. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Thank you too. I thought I was pretty well informed on farming methods until I had my eyes opened by someone talking about that machine that does unthinkable things to male baby chicks. Then I started looking into other things like pigs in gas chambers and what happens to male calves and now I can't stop spreading the word in the hope that other people who haven't heard about these atrocities either will feel inspired to do something too, not to mention the health benefits :D. Its so so easy not to buy the products these days, just habits/taste buds/lack of motivation/fear of the unknown holding most people back. I really hadn't taken on board that when I purchased eggs I was basically paying someone else to chop up live chicks in my name. Cognitive dissonance :( but shows we all need a little shove to face up to the reality of what our money pays for.
     
  7. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Good to hear, every little helps. Now can I persuade you to cut back on eggs and dairy too :D:D
     
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  8. Boxer123

    Boxer123 PetForums VIP

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    I think there is definitely more information out there now and more alternatives giving up milk for me has been very easy. I have forced myself to read some of the more graphic information because I think it's easy to forget when tempted with food out and about.
     
  9. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    I agree, my OH often asks me why I'm upsetting myself reading stuff or watching stuff that is just awful, I admit I do turn a lot of it off or wind through it because it is just too barbaric for words but If I do that I make sure I find out about the issue being discussed afterwards. Keeping up to date with the undercover footage or issues being discussed by activists keeps me motivated and determined to help spread the word. In much the same way that I keep on reading/watching/listening to all the wholefood plant based doctors and experts information so that I stay motivated from a health perspective too.
     
  10. Happy Paws

    Happy Paws PetForums VIP

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    I'm sorry but I love my meat, I try to eat healthy and have cut down a little but no way would I give it up completely.
     
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  11. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    LinznMilly, O2.0 and Wild With Roxi like this.
  12. Vicbloss

    Vicbloss PetForums Junior

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    I'm mostly vegan. I never buy meat but buy things with dairy products in them sometimes. So I can't say I a true vegan but getting there.
    I do buy meat for my dog though. Free range organic if I can, she is only small so I don't have to worry too much about the cost, but I am wondering if anybody feeds their dog a vegan diet? Mine loves veggies but her diet is mostly meat based. Just wondering if anyone had any experience of feeding a dog a non meat diet.
     
  13. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Hello and welcome. You might like our Plant Based Thread which is a sticky at the top of the General section

    https://www.petforums.co.uk/threads...getarian-or-just-after-some-new-ideas.450190/

    As far as feeding dogs goes I'm sure you know it is a really contentious issue and one I really struggle with. You are damned if you feed them meat (by other vegans and non vegans alike who will use it to call you a hypocrite) and damned if you do by other dog owners who think it is cruel/selfish and vets who think it is dangerous. My advice would be do lots of research, discuss it with your vet and perhaps even see whether your dog likes/does well on one of the vegan complete dried foods. One of our members @catz4m8z feeds her dogs a homemade vegan diet as far as I know.

    I have 3 large dogs, all getting on in years and all with some health issues/medications so I've thought long and hard about it. My vet was horrified and said absolutely not - I'd already bought two different types of vegan complete kibble to try them with which they would not eat. In the end I decided I wasn't comfortable forcing my ethics on my dogs. I wasn't vegan when I took them on and made a commitment to look after them for the rest of their lives so I've looked at what I feed them and now go mainly for "by products" of the meat industry so things like tripe and their treats/chews are fish skin. When these three pass I don't think I will have another dog as this really does make me feel uncomfortable. However I also have an elderly mother, 81 at the moment with a host of health issues including diabetes/high blood pressure/only one kidney due to previous cancer and lots of other issues. There is a strong probability that she will come to live with us at some time in the future and she is not vegan, she doesn't do well with beans, spicy food or lots of vegetables (apparently) so I will have the same issue when catering for her. At the moment when she visits she eats the same food as us and enjoys it but if she actually lived here I'm not sure it would be right for me to force her to be vegan so no doubt I will do the same for her as I do for my dogs - not the tripe and fish skins of course :Hilarious:Hilarious and just change out the things she can cope with and still give her fish although I will resist chicken if I can.
     
  14. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nu...death-those-cancer-diabetes-and-heart-disease

    Higher intakes of animal protein increased risk of death in those with cancer, diabetes, and heart disease, according to a study published online in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. Researchers followed the diets of 2,641 participants from the Kuopio Ischaemic Heart Disease Risk Factor Study and compared protein intake with death from chronic disease. Those who consumed more meat and protein from animal-based sources in place of plant-based sources increased their risk of death from chronic disease by 23 percent. Possible mechanisms for the increased risk include decreased kidney function and increased production of cancer-related hormones associated with higher animal-based protein intake.


    https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nu...-meat-plant-protein-lowers-risk-heart-disease

    Replacing red meat with plant-based protein sources lowers your risk for heart disease, according to a meta-analysis published in Circulation. Researchers reviewed studies that compared diets that included red meat with eating habits that replaced red meat with foods such as legumes and tracked cardiovascular disease risk factors. Plant-based protein sources in place of red meat produced improvements in blood lipids. Replacing red meat with fish did not reduce the risk for heart disease. The authors noted that reduced intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and increased intakes of fiber and antioxidants found in plants may be possible mechanisms for the improvements.

    And not to let eggs off the hook

    https://www.pcrm.org/news/health-nutrition/eggs-raise-risk-heart-disease-and-death


    Dietary cholesterol—and eggs specifically—raise the risk for heart disease and death, according to a new study published in JAMA. Researchers from Northwestern University analyzed data from almost 30,000 participants with an average follow-up time of 17.5 years. They found that each 300 mg dose of dietary cholesterol was associated with an increased risk for cardiovascular disease and mortality by 17 and 18 percent, respectively. When it came to eggs, each half egg caused a 6 and 8 percent increased risk, respectively. The authors urge the reviewers of the Dietary Guidelines for Americans to consider these findings in their next update.
     
    #14 rottiepointerhouse, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  15. Elles

    Elles PetForums VIP

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    I know that one of the longest lived dogs was a vegan collie who lived to 27. It sounds like his owner knew what she was doing though and he was fed healthy home made dinners.

    I personally have no problem with feeding my dog raw meat. I’ve been vegetarian for half a century and relatively recently vegan, but my dog is more important than I am, so she gets what I think is best for her with my current knowledge and ability. My own vet has border collies, he feeds raw, so no problem with my particular vet practice.

    I wasn’t going to reply as I have no experience feeding a dog a plant based vegan diet. :oops:
     
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  16. Wild With Roxi

    Wild With Roxi PetForums Senior

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    RPH has given great advice already, but I'll add a little bit of my thoughts too.

    I think with dogs and vegan diets it's up to you and your dog. It really depends on how your dog likes the food and how healthy they are while eating it. Some dogs do great on vegan food, whether that be kibble, wet or homemade. Others do OK on it but not the best, and for some it really doesn't work out. My take on the argument that "it's unnatural" is - dogs aren't natural. They may be descendants of wolves, but Bichons, Pomeranians, Cockapoos and most dogs that are around today - they're not wolves. They're domestic animals that have been created by humans. Dogs find it easy to adapt and eat what humans provide them with, once they were fed scraps, now they're fed wet or dry food in varying levels of quality, some are fed Raw and others are fed homemade meals and some are fed vegan or vegetarian. Dogs don't know, (or care for that matter, as long as they like it!) what they're eating, so as long as it provides all the nutrition they need, and they're healthy and happy - I'm happy. And if other animals don't have to suffer and die for my dogs to eat - even better. Veggie Pets UK is a great site to look at, because you can see most of the vegan food brands, read through the nutrition information and compare it to meat based foods from zooplus, where you can read through the nutrition info on some of the foods on there. I think in the future, when lab meat becomes a widely accessible thing, I'd probably feed my dogs a Raw diet with lab meat (if it was good for them of course) - so no animals are harmed but my dogs still get to eat meat. I think that would probably be the best solution for cats and other carnivorous animals as well. I'm really curious to find out if that would be an option. But that's in the future and at the moment, we have to do what's best for our animals. (while also thinking of other animals and the planet when possible as well) Another thing to add is that a border collie called bramble lived to be 27 on a vegan diet :)


    My Experience with feeding a vegan diet to dogs:
    Mylo has been on two different Vegan diets in the past, one was Benevo Kibble from and the other was a homemade diet. He enjoyed both, and the kibble was actually what got him eating properly again after he became extremely fussy and difficult to feed, often not eating most of his food or just not having any interest - so that was good. He didn't have his recurring ear infections while on this food, and his allergies cleared up too. I had both of the dogs on the homemade diet for two months to see how they'd do on it. They were both happy and healthy eating it, and really enjoyed the meals as I'd often change them up slightly. Jess had a lovely shiny coat while eating it, Mylo's tear stains and feet weren't as bad as before and started to clear up quite a bit and they were both active. The reason we stopped both were simply because we could only get the Kibble from the UK and we're in Ireland, so it was a bit awkward at times to get it, especially if we ran out and couldn't just run to the shop. I'll admit it is a silly excuse, and I may consider using it again in the future. And with the homemade diet, it was hard to make every three days for the dogs and fairly expensive due to the variety of different fresh ingredients we were using. We just didn't have the time unfortunately. So both my dogs are on meat based foods at the moment, Jess is on Gain Puppy food and Mylo is on Burns. They are both happy and healthy and active on these brands at the moment, so I'm happy - but of course I would rather not pay for animals to be killed for my dog's food, it's what I have to do at the moment.

    I'm fine with people feeding their dogs kibble, wet food, raw or vegan kibble, vegan wet food or homemade vegan diets. I think as long as the dog is happy and healthy and getting all the nutrition he/she needs, that's all that matters.

    (Sorry, I'm awful at wording things and this probably turned out completely wrong but ah well)
     
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  17. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    I was just going to share this video :)
    I love Dr. Davis. He's right up the road from me now that he's moved to Asheville, I have to figure out a reason to go to his clinic LOL!
     
  18. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    :Hilarious:Hilarious I don't blame you, he always come across as such a nice caring man.
     
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  19. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    I would not feed my dogs a vegan diet. I do believe dogs are scavengers and can do well on a varied diet, but they do need meat IMO. Ideally meat sourced from small farms or hunted. I'm not there yet with my dogs - feeding them only meat that I'm comfortable with where it came from, but I'm getting better. Having fewer dogs does make it easier.

    Not for nothing, I'm not one to say I want to see everyone go vegan either. I would be ecstatic with simply getting rid of giant factory farms, big dairy, and returning to a more sustainable practice of raising animals to eat. Which will mean a huge reduction in the amount of meat and dairy we consume, and yes, many of us will chose to avoid it entirely.
     
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  20. O2.0

    O2.0 PetForums VIP

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    Darned WFPB diet has me healthy and slim, I'd look funny showing up at his bariatric clinic! :D
     
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