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Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by candysmum, Mar 24, 2011.
Thank you. She has hip dysplasia and anal furunculosis.
oh bless her, enjoy what time you have together. xx Ours was sudden and unexpected she was 14 roughly and over a space of 3 days lost her back legs and was in constant pain on tuesday when i had her pts.
A couple of years back, when rotties were getting bad press again , many show breeders made a concious decision and we all stuck together and many of us didnt breed for any litters for over a year. Now I call that being responsible huh?
I breed when I want a new pup for show and to continue my lines, I have more litters than originally planned but, hey, plans go wrong, lol, and things change. I do all the research I can and do everything right etc etc.
Its really about BYB's and Puppy Farmers who couldnt give a flying wotnot about the welfare of their dogs and the pups they sell on, not the likes of me!
Pedigree breeders will always have a 'market' as not everyone wants a rescue for all sorts of reasons, as has already been said.
I call that very responsible.. And seriously think breeders of other breeds should take a leaf out of your book.. I understand you can't stop breeding well bred dogs.. But if all just did something like yourselves then things would ease.. even if just ease a little.. xxx
I wish someone had the power to knock on all dog owners houses and if not papered up and being bred for the good of the breed. Then this authority have the right to send the dog to be neutered..
I wish I could have that job..
Give all the dogs in rescue a chance to find a home.. it would atleast give dogs a fighting chance..
A recently dumped dog that went onto death row on a forum I go on.. was a death and blind pup..
Most stunning pup you have ever seen.. but seriously ... For it to be born blind and deaf there most have been something in its parents that revealed these possibilities already?
Is there a point to this thread?
As a breeder, I could NEVER meet the demand for puppy enquiries I get - and often I cannot find responsibly bred puppies to meet their requirements - frequently I have advised people to go down the rescue route and many people will not do it for a whole host of reasons - you can lead a horse to water as they say.
During the time I've been breeding, there have been around 250K labradors registered (and probably half as many again unregistered) - I've contibuted just 17 to that number during that time, 4 I've kept myself, 2 to the same family (from different litters) and all from fully health tested parents.
If you want to target your anger at anyone - it's the puppy farmers and the BYB who have no thought for where their dogs go and are responsible for most of what ends up in rescue in the first place.
I spent two years trawling rescues before we eventually got our eldest girl - because my daughter was simply too frightened at that stage of any adult dog, of any size - afterwards - they refused to home a rescue with me because my girl wasn't neutered.
I too do things for rescue in terms of raising funds, out searching for lost dogs, taking rescues on mercy dashes back to safety and temporarily fostered - all done because I've been in a position to help at the time, not because I'm a saint or want any kind of halo or slap on the back.
There IS, and will remain a market for responsibly bred puppies for owners where rescue simply is not an option - it's a fact of life.
Stop the puppy farmers - stop the idiots who argue cross breeds are healthier and sell them for stupid money without any health tests - the back yard breeders who want a holiday or a new kitchen.
NO single breeder can better the breed unless the gene pool is so ridiculously small to start with) - but they can improve their lines and produce healthy happy puppies who grow up into lifelong companions who DON'T end up in rescue.
NO breeder breeding responsibly for their own lines and doing the best they can to produce healthy pups which they take time to ensure they go to the right homes, even if that means they stay for far longer than 8 weeks should be made to feel guilty and I can give you a CAST IRON GUARANTEE that if there were no responsible breeders - people wanting puppies wouldn't go to rescue - they would go to commercial and Backyard breeders and puppy farmers - and to believe anything to the contrary is quite simply naive in the extreme.
The point being, people get to have there say.. whether others like it or not.. regardless of whether you breed or not..
I must admit I'm a bit puzzled now. These are the parts of your post I was referring to:
As I said, I mean no disrespect to you - indeed, there are others on here who have said much the same things as you have said here. It is the wrongness of the argument that annoys me, and why I felt I had to post to say that the argument is fallacious.
Can you see what I mean? It's the ridiculous notion that someone breeding ethically means an equivalent number of dogs don't get rescued from a shelter that annoys me. You breeding nine pups DID NOT mean nine dogs were not rescued. If you hadn't bred this litter, would your nine potential buyers of dalmations have shrugged and said, "Oh, I'll go get a rescue pup instead"? Of course not. They would have looked for another breeder.
This is an argument often used by people who are really worried about the amount of dogs in rescue shelters, but the argument is fallacious because there is no correllation between the two facts. Someone who is wanting to buy a certain breed from a certain breeder will not necessarily decide to rescue a dog if they can't buy what they want.
The amount of dogs in shelters is horrific and I fully respect the work of people who look after them, raise money for them, and try to rehome them. I don't know what the solution to the problem is, but trying to pretend that if people didn't breed for a few years then all dogs would be rehomed (an argument I have seen on here and other forums quite a few times) is just a load of nonsense.
yeah i get what your saying maybe i worded my post wrongly?
What i mean is some people may go to a rescue however when a cute puppy is born sometimes may go to the puppy without a history and forget the dog they may have been getting from a shelter?
Does that make any sense?
I dont think responisble breeders should stop breeding for a second becasue a lot of good comes from it. keeps people away from BYB and does help slowly but surely with health issues in their breed.
It was something that i just thought about today and wanted to see how other people thought about it.
I dont mean to offend or annoy anyone is was something i really wanted to know other peoples thoughts on.
Good post, just like you when mum first got into the breed we never planned on showing or breeding..Look at us now
That was kind to mention mum we do help with breed rescues, and others for that matter...we are passionate about our breed and dogs in generally, therefore we want to help.
Im not sure the point of this thread either, but just to say that good breeding practices have no impact on rescue and not all people want rescues, they want specific dogs for specific things that go beyond being just a pet, so will not be taking homes away from a rescue anyway.
Breeders come in many different types and there are grey areas between those types too but there is no doubt that there is too much breeding going on. To stop all breeding would be foolish it would lead to a loss of the current breeds we have, but the only breeding that should be happening is from the very best of these breeds. Im not keen on the expression improving the breed. I cant imagine that the few pups I will produce in my lifetime will improve the breed, however, I only breed a)when I want a pup and b)when I have a bitch of such quality that her genes will benefit and are worth keeping in the gene pool. No one who wants one of my puppy buyers would consider getting a rescue in place of one of my puppies. They are after something specific. They may take a rescue in addition, but not instead of.
Unfortunately, the way you went about breeding your bitch does fall into that category. From the word go, the first step was not taken that being to check their registration to ensure the bitch is not endorsed. I could go through all the things that were done wrong poor research into the bitches pedigree poor choice of stud dog (and unethical stud owner) but wont say anymore. I seem to remember that you were advised at the time but didnt want to hear as so frequently happens when people want a litter regardless.
Thats not to say you dont care you clearly do, but caring is not enough to be a good, ethical breeder. If caring alone were enough we would have far fewer dogs with health problems, far fewer dogs in unsuitable homes with less risk of these dogs needing rehoming and far fewer pups being born.
Suffice to say that hopefully you have learnt, but this learning should happen before having a litter. These are living creatures and should not be used as a learning process. Thankfully Candy is now spayed and hopefully you will do things right the next time. But rather than being an example of how to breed a first time litter, your experience is really how NOT to breed a first time litter. And if you can see that then you will have taken the first steps to becoming a good breeder.
Searching through the BRS winter edition and checking all the sires and dams health test results (Malamutes only) I can clearly see that the biggest input of puppies came from byb's or pf's - otherwise they would have been health tested. So I think it's these people who are not ony taking away potential homes but also filling up the rescues - not decent breeders.
Some people are looking for a specific breed of a specific age, usually a pup and wouldn't necessarily go to a rescue anyway - I didn't with any of mine.
The way I look at it is any one of my dogs could have gone into rescue as they were already on the planet - so in a strange sort of way I don't feel guilty at having bought any of them. But I do feel guilty at having had a litter all be it not of my doing, as I have the most beautiful dog (Flynn) who I adore and have seen him go through one hip replacement and shortly about to go through another. Call me a byb (though it was ex OH) and i'll totally agree!
Don't you mean 'their' say?
Hypocrisy is a most unredeeming feature in humans - maybe one reason I like my dogs so much
haha yep youve well and truely been bitten by the crestie bug! and i'd recommend your kennel to anyone who was looking for an excellent crestie breeder
youve both been wonderful helping so many dogs in need xxx ...not to mention adopting a couple of neglected cats hey...but seriously theres no wonder people get so angry and frustrated at all the irresponsible breeders out there especially when theyre dealing with the poor innocent victims of their actions!
i did the same and am sure many others have , i've also turned a stud down this week!
There is no doubt that there are less well bred puppies on the ground - and the KC registration figures have borne this out - conversely however - demand for puppies IS NOT falling - and rescues are busier than ever -
That alone should say something very loud and clear to those who believe there should be a moratorium on breeding for any period - sadly it won't -and people will continue to stand on their soap boxes while the good do the right thing, and the bad carry on just as they have always done
Rescue dogs are for certain types of homes.....they aren't for every family, In addition they wouldn't consider us as we have two young boys. When we started our search for a bitch we did visit local centres full of dogs looking for homes however none fitted our criteria hence we went down the puppy route.
Found a fantastic breeder, well bred dogs, health tested PRA & FN, third generation BOB cruft winner!
Were currently starting our research into having a litter from our bitch come her third season (in roughly 1.5yrs) she will be 3yrs, she is heredity clear of
PRA- she's a cocker spaniel, she's a good example of the breed, size, coat, head etc she has a good five gen pedigree, a1 temperament with all adults, children & dogs. Her breeder is on hand & I will be in contact come the time! I have contacted some suitable studs & forward her pedigree for them to look into prior to me following up closer to the time. I will be keeping the best of the litter to hopefully show. I'd be interested to hear peoples views ( I recently joined this forum to find out more info, I've read The Book of The
Bitch & lots of posts good & bad on here) we have the space, the time, the money, the patience, ready for things to go wrong, I'm fine with honest views....as long as they are constructive
Ps) hello everyone