Welcome to PetForums

Join thousands of other pet owners and pet lovers on the UK's most popular and friendly pet community and discussion forum.

Sign Up

Are these real siamese?

Discussion in 'Cat Chat' started by dan138zig, Jun 19, 2010.


  1. dan138zig

    dan138zig PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi, guys. I need your opinion here. I want to buy a siamese cat and this girl sells them. But I don't know if they're pure or mixed. What do you think? Will they grow up with a black face? Because I want a siamese with black face.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. katie200

    katie200 PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    16,055
    Likes Received:
    371
    i realy couldnt tell you but there cute though
     
  3. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,663
    Sealpoints are the darkest - but they are not black, they are bitter-chocolate or deep coffee-brown.

    ALL Siamese kittens are born white - their markings come in over the next few months; the dark extremities are the result of cooler body temp of the extremities, and if the body is shaved (for a surgery, to treat a wound, etc) the first hair will come in the color of the points - then it will recover its usual warmth, and become whichever shade of beige goes with those points.

    her kittens look genuine, as EVERY Siamese trait is recessive -
    at least 70% Siamese is required to show any one of them; the only heritable trait in Siamese-Xs is the svelte body, leggy look + big ears - the blue-eys, light body + colored points are gone; ALL the kittens will look like the non-Siamese parent.

    but her kittens are not good quality, hun -
    they are scrawny + underdeveloped. :nonod: i would look elsewhere.
    good luck,
    --- terry
     
  4. malibu

    malibu Guest

    They are gorgeous x
     
  5. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,663
    for comparison, have a peek at these kittens:

    Sealpoint Siamese Kittens - Dupo - Animals - blue eyed siamese kittens

    The Daily Kitten

    ____________________________________________

    these are the current *show type* which i do not care for - exaggerated ears,
    skinny tube bodies, stilt-like legs:
    Siamese Cat & Siamese Kitten

    but theres a litter with their dam in a cup-bed, on the lower-right -
    even those kittens look more-substantial than the ones in the ad. :(
    _______________________________________________


    these are appleheads, AKA traditional Siamese, like those i grew up with -
    my father bred Siamese for over 20-years;
    Pedigree Siamese Cats, traditional siamese cat, applehead siamese cat, seal point siamese cat, CreativeMix.Com

    all my best,
    --- terry
     
  6. Wendy1969

    Wendy1969 PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    3
    I know some very good Siamese breeders if you would like me to PM their weblinks?
     
  7. lymorelynn

    lymorelynn UN Peacekeeper in training
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    34,828
    Likes Received:
    31,738
    The last one in your advert has quite a lot of striping on the legs so could be tabby point Siamese. The others look like chocolate points. But I agree with leashedforlife - they don't look the best examples and do look somewhat scrawny even for modern type Siamese. If this is a friend advertising them do you know anything about the breeding? Do they own both parents? Are they registered with a known body like GCCF or TICA? What about their pedigree?
    Find out as much as you can first and look at other breeders websites too. I don't have any kittens at the moment but feel free to have a look at my site (link in my signature) and PM me if I can help further.
     
  8. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    749
    I think the OP lives in Indonesia... I'm sure there must be breeders of pedigree Siamese there, perhaps even the 'original' kind imported from Thailand.

    dan138zig, if your question is 'will these be Siamese coloured when they grow up' the answer is yes. As mentioned before it takes some time before the points colour develops - however if you live in a hot climate, they may never become as dark as Siamese in a colder country. And the depth of points colour is extremely variable - I once saw a Siamese at a show that was almost completely black all over; and one of my past Siamese queens had fairly light points colour, so it wasn't until she was bred from that I knew for certain she was a light Seal point not a dark Chocolate point.

    Whether they will have the elongated look of a pedigree Siamese as seen in the West is another matter. It all depends on what style of Siamese they are bred from - traditional, Classic, Thai or show type.

    The colourpoint gene (Siamese colouring) is very widespread in Asia (though mainly on the Malay peninsula from Singapore upwards), so these may be 'ordinary' cats which have the Siamese colouring.
     
  9. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,663
    interesting!
    do such street-cats also have blue-eyes into adulthood, or do they change to green or yellow with age?
    intrigued,
    --- terry
     
  10. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    749
    Yes, absolutely..... they stay blue. There are also Burmese coloured street cats, and the heterozygote of the two aka Tonkinese. Siamese are called Wichien Maas in Thailand (Moon Diamond) and Burmese & Tonks, Thong Daeng (Copper) and have featured in Thai classical literature for over 200 years.

    I went to Thailand some years ago to do the first study of Siamese cats in their native land. The results were published in a book by Martin Clutterbuck (my colleague, but it was I who originated the idea and got it off the ground). Some of my photographs were published in the book too.
     
  11. Miss.PuddyCat

    Miss.PuddyCat PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    43
    I have a question Merlin :)

    As adults can the colour become darker or later if their moved to a hotter or colder climate or does what kind environment that they grow up in (hot or cold) set the darkness or lightest for adult hood

    I hope that makes sense
     
  12. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    749
    It does- but no, it's the ambient temperature they are in at the current time (or at the last full moult anyway) that sets the degree of shading and points colour density. The Siamese gene (Himalayan in other species) is acromelanic, meaning it is controlled by heat. Acromelanic colours are only able to generate pigment on the coolest parts of the body, and have either blue (as in cats) or pink (as in other species) eyes.
     
  13. Miss.PuddyCat

    Miss.PuddyCat PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    43
    Thats interesting, thanks. Would this effect a Birman Cat (Chocolate point)
     
  14. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    749
    Yes it would, as the Birman has the same colourpoint gene as the Siamese. It would also affect Ragdolls, Himalayans and every other breed which has the colourpoint gene.
     
  15. Miss.PuddyCat

    Miss.PuddyCat PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    3,917
    Likes Received:
    43

    Cool I cant wait ( if i do get a birman) to see how this unfolds. Thanks.
     
  16. leashedForLife

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2009
    Messages:
    19,309
    Likes Received:
    3,663
    was that the 1998 edition, sue?
    --- terry
     
  17. MerlinsMum

    MerlinsMum PetForums VIP

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2009
    Messages:
    8,189
    Likes Received:
    749
    Yes - the first one. Just found out my copy is worth at least £100!! :eek: Probably a lot more as it's author signed (dedication to me) and there aren't many of those about.

    PS shall we take this to another thread?
     
  18. dan138zig

    dan138zig PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2010
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    1
    hi guys, it's me again. now i've found two other breeders. here are the supposed siamese that they sell: 1. [​IMG]
    2. [​IMG]
    3. [​IMG]

    what do you think? is the last one siamese? because she doesn't look slender.
     
    #18 dan138zig, Jun 25, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  19. gemini

    gemini PetForums Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2010
    Messages:
    182
    Likes Received:
    2
    Those ones don't look like Siamese to me. Fur looks too long, and as you say she doesn't seem Siamese shaped.

    Just read what LeashedForLife said about Siamese crosses always looking like the non Siamese parent. I have a Siamese cross, He has the siames points which have become much darker and more pronounced as he got older. Now (at 2 years old) he looks (to me) like an old fashioned Siamese, and he has the bright blue eyes too. He doesn't have the Siamese temperament though, unfortunately. My last Siamese was more like a dog, followed me everywhere and wanted cuddles all the time. Dex is much more aloof.
     

    Attached Files:

    #19 gemini, Jun 25, 2010
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2010
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice