[Louiseness]

Hi all,

Just looking for a bit of advice and your experiences with dealing with kidney disease/failure in your dogs, particularly anyone who has dealt with it in a young dog.

We recently rescued a lovely male bull mastiff, about 3 years old according to the rescue. I did make a post here about him peeing in the house due to a UTI - well, it turns out the core cause of that was some reasonably advanced kidney disease/failure

We've had blood tests and urine samples/cultures, and apparently he is losing a lot of protein - the vet reckons his kidneys are functioning at about 30%, obviously not great.

We've just recently started him on Fortekor daily, and he will be moving onto Hills K/D dry food as soon as that comes in the post (currently eating Harringtons turkey and rice).

We want to do what we can for him within reason but simply can't afford things like kidney biopsies - just our luck that our month's insurance from the rescue was processed AFTER he started getting recurring UTIs, so of course this is now an existing condition and uninsurable

He seems pretty happy in himself, and is being incredibly stoic - eating well, no signs of vomiting or diarrhea, loves to go out on his walks. The only thing so far that is worrying me is that although he isn't peeing on the floor since we treated his last UTI, he has started to leak a little while he sleeps, and sometimes if he stretches he will leak a couple of drops. Will this stop as the Fortekor kicks in? Is it a sign of another UTI?

On the whole, just wondering if anyone else has dealt with this sort of thing and what worked for them? How was the dog's quality of life after their diagnosis?

 

[Kc Mac]

I have not personally dealt with it but have a friend who's bull terrier is in the early stages

For this reason I consulted a holistic vet for advice. Ultimately feeding a raw diet is best, but if not an option (like my friend) then the Hills K/D diet is the best option as it is designed for kidney issue. He also suggested using Pet Plus Pet Plus Nutritional Supplements for Dogs and Cast - Ingredients and also Ipakitine Ipakitine Powder - Ipakitine | Petmeds.co.uk

I will add I am NOT a vet but the above is the advice I was given, although my friends dog is not as advanced as yours.

I would also suggest you consult with a holistic vet, or ask your vets about the above supplements

I'm sure someone else with more advice will be along soon, and good luck

ETA - no clue what Fortekor is and only seem to find a website telling me about heart and kidney disease!

 

[Louiseness]

Thanks for replying I was wondering about holistic treatments/supplements but it's hard to know where to start. The dog currently gets (and will continue getting unless I hear otherwise) raw bones/carcasses etc as treats, but I don't really have the time or expertise to try to feed a fully raw diet, especially tailored to his particular issues. Especially since we're in the very early stages of treatment, I'm willing to take the lead from the vet and see how a prescription diet works to start with

I don;t know much about Fortekor myself but from what I understand it's a drug which acts by reducing blood pressure, which lets the blood flow better through the damaged kidneys, so they are under less stress and deteriorate more slowly. I'm sure someone else will know more than I do though!

 

[Kc Mac]

Ah ok if you are already feeding some raw foods and open to a more natural way of treating I would encourage you find a holistic vet in your area (just google!)

Also have a look at Natural Instinct, it's balanced raw minces I feed my old girl

Good luck whichever way you decide just hope you and your boy have more quality time together x

 

[912142]

I don't have experience of an animal with kidney failure but I do with human and I would have thought that if your dog has 30% renal function toxins will build up very quickly within the body.

In my opinion the vet should have advised you or referred you to a nutritionist who would cover topics such as fluid intake - too much and your dog could end up with odema (fluid build up) which will mean he will have to take more drugs to get rid of excess fluid (costly and would increase visits to the vet. Too little and the already poor kidney function could deteriorate. Kidneys need fluid to flush toxins out of the body otherwise the dog will become unwell. I would also ask about feeding dry food as this will require a fair amount of water and this may not be in your dogs best interest so I would check that out with a canine nutritionist or a specialist renal vet.

To be honest I wouldn't worry too much about a dribble of urine here and there, what I would worry about is no urination.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sled dog hotel]

There seems to be several Kidney and urinary tract problems known in the Bullmastiff, Juvenile kidney Disease being one of them. The main thing as regards to diet seems to be good quality protein and phosphorus levels.

Found these links that may be of some help.

Bullmastiffs - Health Information

http://www.windyhollowvet.com/Document/info/ChronicRenalFailureDiet.pdf

Diet and Chronic Renal Disease

 

[paddyjulie]

Perhaps it's worth going on a breed specific forum too..they may be able to help you more .

Sorry I can't help with anything . I know how you are feeling x

 

[Louiseness]

Thanks all for your replies Good idea on looking for a breed-specific forum, especially as the vet is pretty sure that since he's so young, we're dealing with something inherited, most probably glomulonephritis.

The vet has also advised us that since we are unable to biopsy, we are to some extent going to have to try the different medication options and see what works the best. The dog is currently drinking normally (well, for such a big dog on dry food!) and the vet is satisfied with the specific gravity of his urine and his hydration levels, so that's a good sign. The only physical indication he's ever given of problems is the recurring UTIs, but we know to carefully monitor him for any sign that his body isn't coping (vomiting, fever, diarrhea, etc).

Any advice anyone has to give is still very much welcome, especially if anyone has any experience with the leaking issue - other than he's currently banned from sleeping on the sofa of course

 

[Sled dog hotel]

Thanks all for your replies Good idea on looking for a breed-specific forum, especially as the vet is pretty sure that since he's so young, we're dealing with something inherited, most probably glomulonephritis.

The vet has also advised us that since we are unable to biopsy, we are to some extent going to have to try the different medication options and see what works the best. The dog is currently drinking normally (well, for such a big dog on dry food!) and the vet is satisfied with the specific gravity of his urine and his hydration levels, so that's a good sign. The only physical indication he's ever given of problems is the recurring UTIs, but we know to carefully monitor him for any sign that his body isn't coping (vomiting, fever, diarrhea, etc).

Any advice anyone has to give is still very much welcome, especially if anyone has any experience with the leaking issue - other than he's currently banned from sleeping on the sofa of course

I know in bitches as regards to leaking you can get veterinary medicines, like propolin syrup. urilin but because a lot of bitch problems especially in spayed older bitcher is to do with Hormones plus with his kidney problems and meds for that they likely wont be suitable.

There are natural remedies, again not sure if they are for males and females.
and again compatible with his medication and kidney problems. The Natural Medicines centre who these natural remedies are from is run by Richard Allport who is both a conventional vet but now practices Natural therapies
as far as I know you can contact them for advice so you could ask.

kidney problems

Co enzyme Q10: a supplement used to nsupport effective kidney function

Dr Reckeweg R 18: a homoeopathic combination for all forms of bladder and kidney disease.

incontinence

Dr Reckeweg R 74: a homoeopathic combination that often effective in minimising the symptoms of urinary incontinence.

cystitis see also bladder problems/stones
Buchu: a herbal remedy that has an anti inflammatory and anti infective effect in the urinary systemCystease: a glucosamine based supplement for chronic urinary tract inflammation
Cranberry Complex: a herbal remedy that helps reduce the risk of infection and inflammation in the bladder.

bladder problems/stones
Dr Reckeweg R 18: a homoeopathic combination for bladder irritation, bladder stones and cystitis

Buchu: a herbal remedy that has an anti inflammatory and anti infective effect in the urinary system

Cystease: a glucosamine based supplement for chronic urinary tract inflammation.

Ive picked out all the ones to do with kidney/incontinence/urinary tract

Full list is here
http://www.naturalmedicinecentre.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20&Itemid=31

Full details of the Natural Medicines centre with contact details here
http://www.naturalmedicinecentre.co.uk/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

There is also this natural remedy, Leaks no more that looks like it is for males and females, again though you would have to check that it is compatible with dogs with Kidney problems and on other medication
HomeoPet - Leaks No More

 

[bluegirl]

I have experience of an older dog with chronic kidney disease she had blood tests to confirm the diagnosis and her urea (47) and creatinine (443) levels were so high they were off the scale. It was years ago now and I was advised by the vet to give a homemade diet (I still have the the diets she wrote out for us) and she told us to come back in a month to do further blood tests.
In the interim period I started parsley infusions (known to be great for kidney function) and when we returned a month later both her urea and creatinine levels had halved.
The disease your dog may have and my old dog had are different but parsley is known to help kidney function.
My dog did wee a lot but she didn't dribble and she was quite lethargic, which was the reason I took her to the vets in the first place.
There is no cure for CKD but it is possible to manage it for a period of time.
Hope that helps a little.

 

[holly1]

I have experience of an older dog with chronic kidney disease she had blood tests to confirm the diagnosis and her urea (47) and creatinine (443) levels were so high they were off the scale. It was years ago now and I was advised by the vet to give a homemade diet (I still have the the diets she wrote out for us) and she told us to come back in a month to do further blood tests.
In the interim period I started parsley infusions (known to be great for kidney function) and when we returned a month later both her urea and creatinine levels had halved.
The disease your dog may have and my old dog had are different but parsley is known to help kidney function.
My dog did wee a lot but she didn't dribble and she was quite lethargic, which was the reason I took her to the vets in the first place.
There is no cure for CKD but it is possible to manage it for a period of time.
Hope that helps a little.

What foods did you give in the homemade,besides the parsley?

 

[Louiseness]

In the interim period I started parsley infusions (known to be great for kidney function) and when we returned a month later both her urea and creatinine levels had halved.

Could you tell me a bit more about the parsley infusions?

 

[bluegirl]

What foods did you give in the homemade,besides the parsley?

The diet the vet gave me (back in early 1991) is as follows:

Restricted Protein:
1/4 1b ground beef
1 hard boiled egg
2 cups cooked rice without salt
3 slices white bread crumbled
1 teaspoon calcium carbonate
Balanced supplement vitamins and trace minerals

Braise the meat, retaining fat. Cobine all ingredients and mix well. this mixture is somewhat dry and the palatability can be improved by adding some water (not milk). Yeild=1 and a quarter 1bs

Restricted purine / phosphorus:
2 1/2 cups cooked rice
1oz veg oil
1 large hard boiled egg
1/4 teaspoon calcium carbonate
1/4 teaspoon salt
Vitamins and minerals.

Cook rice, add the salt. Add other ingredients and mix well. refridgerate between feeding.

They are exactly as she wrote them down for me. Fortunately for me my old dog never lost her appetite until the end and even with these concoctions she still ate without moaning.

This incident was the reason I later began to feed a raw diet.

 

[holly1]

Where did you get the calcium and vitamins and minerals?

 

[bluegirl]

Where did you get the calcium and vitamins and minerals?

Its a long time ago now, but I think the vet would have given me those things.

 

[bluegirl]

Could you tell me a bit more about the parsley infusions?

I used one heaped tablespoon of dried parsley, but if you use fresh its about half handful of chopped parsley. Use half pint of water put in a pan cover and simmer until just before boiling. Stand off heat for 4 hours and do not strain. Then put whole mix in a clean jar covered with paper (not waxed paper) and the mix will last about 2-3 days.
I have cockers which are classed as medium sized dogs so I gave 2 tablespoons morning and night. I also added a small amount of honey to each dose and found the best way to give was via a syringe or a small necked bottle. If I couldn't get her to have the infusion I resorted to putting parsley on her food. The book I followed was (and still is) The complete handbook for the dog and cat by Juliette de Bairacli Levy and standard and strong infusions are in that book.

 

[AnnaWilds]

Hi. My little guy is four years old and he was diagnosed with kidney failure about two months ago. He was put on a drip straight away and they said if he didn't start eating , we would have to make that heart wrenching decision. We were so worried over night and rang first thing in the morning. He had made it through the night and he was eating. He seemed to be okay then he was put on strong steroids. He developed amaemia and a skin problem. So we weaned him off the steroids eventually. He seemed to be okay but last night he started going downhill again. He is hunched over , bad breath, only drinking through a syringe but he is eating.

 

[Malmum]

So sorry to hear about your two dogs, how heartbreaking.

I don't know much about kidney function other than kibble puts added pressure on them by taking up so much fluid and dogs rarely drinking enough to fill the void.

Most, if not all, holistic vets recommend a raw diet for the reason that they are not balanced exactly the same every day, thus organs aren't continually working at their limit. Different meats have different minerals, vitamins, enzymes, amino acids etc. and each are broken down by different organs - thus giving some more work on some meats, less on others.
With a diet (such as commercial) which is evenly balanced in the same way each day all of the organs work at full stretch constantly.
Raw fed dogs don't drink anywhere near as much as commercially fed dogs, they don't have to because raw meat contains plenty of moisture in itself. Most of that moisture is absorbed naturally by the body - hence the smaller firm poop.

Hope that all makes sense and I would definitely speak with a holistic vet for an opinion other than a medical vet, if only to see the differing views.

 

[queen princess]

google
raw diet for dogs with kidney failure
lots of info about it
feeding raw is easy once you get the hang of it. PM me if you want a sample menu that my kids use
here is a site that also uses not just meat
http://dogaware.com/health/kidneysamplediet.html