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Adopt, don't breed

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by MiffyMoo, May 21, 2017.


  1. MiffyMoo

    MiffyMoo PetForums VIP

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    this isn't my view, but I'm in co tact with a lady in South Africa who runs a husky rescue. We were chatting on Facebook about this new thing of crossing Huskies with Boerboels and a guy chipped in and asked what the problem is. I honestly got the impression that he didn't know and was looking for clarification. She immediately came back with "no comment".

    This makes me sad, as she could have taken the time to educate him. I know that she is very anti breeding at all, which I personally feel is wrong, and rabidly pitting yourself against genuinely good breeders is only going to make people wary of you.

    I've heard of the rescue mafia type behaviour before, and I really disagree with it. Rescues and breeders should be working together, not waging war on each other
     
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  2. Legshand

    Legshand PetForums Member

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    The boarboels there are very different to here, the majority there are working guard dogs from S African farms, which are vast spaces of land with many kinds of wildlife on them not seen withing 6000 mile here plus its a completly different country on a different continent & all that goes with that.
     
  3. MiffyMoo

    MiffyMoo PetForums VIP

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    What tosh. There are so many Boerboels in cities over there.

    But what does that have to do with the point of my post?
     
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  4. labradrk

    labradrk PetForums VIP

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    I hate that mantra, it makes no sense. Where do they think rescue dogs come from? unless they are strays/street dogs, they are from breeders :Hilarious
     
  5. EmCHammer

    EmCHammer PetForums VIP

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    Sadly in the world of rescue you tend not to come across or have experience of good breeders so probably have a tainted view.

    And have come across breeders involved in breed rescue (good or bad breeders I don't know) who have a different idea of rescue to us ( Ie neutering) or who won't take dogs without papers or if they have a health condition etc where we don't care about such things.

    I've not much experience of good breeders in the world I move in . I'm not saying they don't exist or that there are not some very good breed rescues out there where breeders are involved.

    However on forums and facebook posts would not just reply no comment to something even if it's the 50th time answered the same question .
     
  6. Kimmikins

    Kimmikins PetForums VIP

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    I've got two rescues and a pedigree I bought home as a 2 month old pup. While I will rescue again in the future, I think our next dog will be a pedigree puppy...and I see nothing wrong with that.
    I do find it frustrating that some people are SO anti-breeding. Yes, puppy farms need to go, we need responsible breeding, but if you do your research and find a reputable one I don't see the issue.
     
  7. cbcdesign

    cbcdesign PetForums VIP

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    Well I think if the law was tightened up so that breeders had to operate under stricter regulations that made it problematic for the wrong sort and punished people who operate unethically, mating siblings for and close relatives for example for quick results, then maybe the attitude to breeders would be different. As it stands those of us who have to deal with the health issues poor breeding choices have created throughout the life of a dog get a bit jaded where breeders are concerned.
     
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  8. MollySmith

    MollySmith PetForums VIP

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    I support rescue dogs, my family mostly have rescues and Molly is highly unlikely as a lab/lurch to have been nothing more than an accident. I also think may people intent on a breed forget that rescues have puppies too and perhaps this might be a good place to start than immediately track down a breeder. Unless for show, then I don't claim to entirely understand why people don't rescue.
     
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  9. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    It is possible to have a pedigree puppy that is a rescue too. Just saying :)

    My views won't be popular around here (nothing new there then :Hilarious:Hilarious) but personally I feel if a particular breed has a problem with the numbers in rescues that breeders should not unless for a very good reason be pumping out more. It is disgusting that a nation of dog lovers destroys so many healthy dogs a year just because they are not wanted. So I'd like to see puppy farms shut down with immediate effect and breeding regulated/licensed to include breeders being responsible for any dogs they produce for the rest of that dog's life. I understand the excitement of picking a breeder and viewing a litter and picking a puppy but I really think that is a luxury that should wait until we are entirely on top of the rescue situation.

    Fetches tin hat and hides under the table :Blackeye
     
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  10. MollySmith

    MollySmith PetForums VIP

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    So why does someone who wants a certain breed not go to a rescue then? That's a genuine question! I wanted a lab and it never ever occurred to me to go a breeder. As @rottiepointerhouse say there are thousands of dogs without a home and Molls was within days of loosing her life on a council pound. We homed her from this specific rescue because it gave another dog her space. I simply don't have the single mindedness or whatever it is to not rescue so I really don't understand at all.
     
  11. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou PetForums VIP

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    I think the anti breeding folk can be very extremist in their views sometimes. It's a bit reminiscent of PETA wanting all dogs to cease being bred. How are we meant to preserve our purebred dogs if everyone simply stops buying them? That is why some of our native vulnerable breeds find themselves in trouble with such small registration numbers and even the threat of extinction if things don't improve for them!

    There is nothing wrong with buying a puppy from good, ethical & reputable breeders. Because after all, these dogs produced by them are not apart of the rescue crisis and will likely never be. The issue is with the large amounts of BYB and puppy farmed pups churned out. There needs to be a solution that works in reducing the numbers of those puppies being churned out and I think that would have a huge impact on the rescue numbers in as little as 2/3 years down the line.
     
  12. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    So during that 2-3 years while its sorted out why can't breeders stop churning out more? I'm not talking about vulnerable breeds but your average lab/spaniel/gsd/rottie and staffie?
     
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  13. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou PetForums VIP

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    Because the responsible breeders are not adding to that problem. For what it's worth I do actually believe that certain breeds such as Labs which are hugely overbred could do with lesser numbers being produced and only the very 'top' breeders should be breeding them, but in general they're not the ones to be targeting. How does a said responsible breeder with contracts in place for the return of their dogs bred etc have any effect on joe blogs down the road churning out pups & letting them go to anyone who turns up with the cash. Those are the puppies who have no where else to go when things turn ugly and thus are usually handed over to rescue.
     
  14. Magyarmum

    Magyarmum PetForums VIP

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    What a load of bulls**t! We had a BoErboel in South Africa when we lived on a 20 hectare plot in the Kwa-Zulu-Natal Midlands, and he certainly wasn't a working guard dog. - he was as daft as a brush but a really adorable boy! Apart from a few snakes the only time we saw any wildlife such as rhino, giraffe or lions was when we went to the zoo!

    Boerboels are fairly common here in Hungary, our previous trainer has two brindle males, imported from SA and another friend has a female and they all live in the city and are kept as pets..
     
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  15. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    I disagree. Lets say the Smith family want a Lab or a spaniel, off they trot to a breeder, might be a responsible breeder - done all the health tests and got a contract in place so they buy one of the litter. Now lets say there are no Lab puppies for 2 years. Same family might then take on one of the many Labs in rescue or destroyed thus reducing the numbers in rescue. When there is no longer a problem with Labs in rescue some breeders could start up again.

    Lets have a look at KC registrations for last year for some of the popular breeds

    GSD - 7,751
    Dobermann - 1,288
    Dogue de Bordeaux - 1,727
    Rottweiler - 1,494
    GSP - 1,485
    Vizla - 2,333 + 682 wire haired
    Labs - 33,856
    GR's - 7,232
    Cocker Spaniel - 21,854
    Springer Spaniel - 9,827
    Cav K.C Spaniel - 4,114
    Bulldog - 7,785
    French Bulldog - 21,470
    Min Schnauzer - 5,437
    Shih Tzu - 3,420
    Pug - 10,480

    and the figures on dogs destroyed in this country

    http://www.dogworld.co.uk/story.php...ch_year_should_shock_the_nation,_says_charity

    A ‘SHOCKING’ number of healthy but unwanted dogs are being put to sleep daily as councils and charities buckle under the strain of trying to cope with them.



    New statistics have revealed that in the last 12 months more than 47,500 were abandoned in council pounds, unclaimed by their owners.

    In total 102,363 stray and abandoned dogs were handled by UK local authorities and 5,142 were put to sleep – equating to 14 a day.

    Don't know about you but I find it very hard to square breeding thousands and thousands of puppies every year whilst killing over 5,000 per year.
     
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  16. labradrk

    labradrk PetForums VIP

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    Freedom of choice perhaps? rescue isn't an option for all breeds for a start. In one of my breeds an adult rescue comes up once every now and then, but certainly not enough to supply the waiting list.

    Others may wish to purchase from a reputable breeder rather than rescue, especially if it's a 'step up' breed that is different/more challenging than anything you've had before.

    Others may have goals in mind that they either can't do (eg showing) or would be taking a big gamble with (eg working, dog sports etc) with a rescue.

    Others may find actually getting ANY rescue dog a struggle in the first place. One of my colleagues struggled to get any UK rescue to rehome a dog to her, despite the fact she's a very experienced long-time dog owner because everyone in the house worked, meaning the dog would need to spend a (reasonable) amount time alone each day. In the end she found only the foreign rescues accommodating to her, and she now has two Greek rescues. She is very pro rescue and has never had a breeder bred dog, but you could easily see why when faced with rejection left right and centre it would be very easy to give up and approach breeders instead.

    I really don't see the breeder vs rescue argument as legitimate. Dogs from good breeders shouldn't end up in rescue. I'm not going to say they don't, because some will ignore breeder contracts and dump the dog in rescue or sell it on rather than give it back to the breeder for whatever reason. But generally, decent breeders aren't responsible for the rescue crisis, backyard breeders and puppy farmers are.
     
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  17. MollySmith

    MollySmith PetForums VIP

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    Thanks for the reply. I had considered the showing element (we should celebrate our rescues more) but not the rest. I still don't necessarily agree (and tentatively suggest flexibility around breed) but do appreciate the problem with some rescue standards. I still maintain a pro-rescue stance.

    I think there has to be a fine balance and that rescues and breeders need to work together. I don't think there will ever been a day when rescues all have homes but in adopting a better legislated system and closing down law breaking 'breeders', perhaps that may give rescue charities the chance to get on top of the continual crisis. As dog owners and a pet forum, we have the opportunity to contribute to that process by learning from each other.
     
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  18. kittih

    kittih PetForums VIP

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    My one day dog is highly likely to be a rescue adult or teenager, possibly from a breed specific rescue and preferably one that had been fostered in a family home. I don't really want a pup.

    However if I did want a pup at some point then my reasons for choosing to get one of a specific breed from an ethical, reputable and fully researched breeder rather than a rescue would be predominantly because I would want to stack the odds in favour of the pup having good health and behavioural traits. Getting a young pup of unknown provenance and possibly poorly bred from a rescue would for me not be my preference. In part I think this is because I would be new to dog ownership and would want to give myself the best chance of not being overdogged or overwhelmed by medical or behavioural issues should they occur. I know that even the best bred pups with generations of genetically sound relatives can still have problems but if I was to chose a pup of a specific breed it would be with the view to take part in dog sports and the health, soundness and temperament of the dog would be a significant factor for me.


    As I have said in all likelihood I will choose an adult rescue mutt when dog ownership day finally arrives. But I wouldn't want to see ethical responsible breeders no longer breeding

    I agree that breeds with many many puppies registered should cut back on those pups though I am sure if we were to look at how many of those were actually from very good breeders it would be a fraction of the total.
     
  19. ouesi

    ouesi Guest

    Responsible rescues do an important job. Not all rescues are responsible or even ethical. Some are downright awful.
    Responsible breeders do an important job. Not all breeders are responsible or even ethical. And yep, some are downright awful.

    Owners need to be smart and not support irresponsible behavior when they set out to acquire a dog.

    And we all need to work together, breeders, rescues, and owners to improve the lives of ALL dogs. The biggest problem IMHO is that we humans tend to see only what is right in front of us and fail to see the bigger picture. Until we start caring about all dogs, now just the ones in our immediate care, nothing is going to change.
     
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  20. Pappychi

    Pappychi PetForums VIP

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    Retail rescue is the worst of all of them in my opinion. I'm on a Facebook page where someone screenshotted a post from a rescue who had "rescued" a Maltese x Yorkie who may be pregnant. Very early days pregnant mind you. Instead of spaying the bitch they're saying every dog deserves a life and describe the bitch as a desirable Morkie.

    I mean just what? Stop pushing human ideologies onto dogs. Spay her, don't bring anymore unwanted puppies into the world, place her in a pet home and use those resources on another dog in need.
     
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