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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Deefer is growing in confidence, size and of course cheekiness! We normally use a NO command followed by a loud clap when required to stop him doing naughty things. When he is really excitable and ignores that we try to place him in his pen in another room (we leave the connecting door open to where we are) for 5 to 10 mins by which time he has settled down. this seems to be working pretty well.

However when he is let out in the mornings and during our day time visits home is when he is at his cheekiest, understandable as he is a bundle of excitement at being let out of his pen. The problem is that we have such limited time with him at these times and he already spends so much time in his pen without us that it doesnt seem fair to place him there again!!

please, if anyone has any other ideas for discipling and training we would be so grateful as right now we feel like horrible owners for constantly 'imprisoning' our gorgeous puppy!!
 

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i wouldnt disipline anymore then you are doing, too much can cause doggy depression. sounds like your doing a good job so far.

When you leave the house what does he do then, and what do you do when you come back, are you calm or are you just as pleased to see him as he is??

If you dont want to pen him when he gets over the top, try to ignore him for the first couple of mins when you get in, then go to great him. if he gets excited again ignore him until he sits, then fuss him, if he gets up again ignore him, only fuss him when hes sitting. ignore him for a few mins before you leave too. or give him a treat (ours get a largish bone shaped buiscit) before you leave then leave quietly, without making a fuss. this teaches him that you leaving is ok i only mention this as it might be a mild case of seperation anxiety and its best to not let it develop further.

to be honest i think your doing a good job, i know it seems unfair penning him up at the moment but he will learn.
 
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What is your routine like?
I would suggest a good walk/exercise in the morning first thing - depending on the age of your dog of course but a good run/walk for an hour at the start of the day is the best way IMO to get a calm dog for the rest of the day...

When I need my boy to be calm during the day (for instance if I have an important paper to write and although ill be home I need peace and quiet) I ask my OH to tire him out in the morning, then I feed him...he'll be resting and calm until the middle of the afternoon :thumbsup:
Then in the afternoon Ill do a training session with him to stimulate him mentally - before he goes for his evening walk, with either me or OH.

And I agree with the post above as well :thumbsup:

xx
 

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I assume from your post you are crating him while you are out? How long time period is that for then? Personally I hate crates and have never had a reason for using them but if it's the way you are going with your pup you have to restrict the length for time he's shut in it and make sure the time he's out of it he's stimulated mentally and physically. I think for a young dog 2 hours is more than enough time locked in a cage. Is there a reason he cannot have free run in one room of your house? Just imagine yourself being enclosed in a small area for a length of time, and then when you are released told off for being full of energy? He can't be blamed for being glad of being free?
 
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If you are only in for a brief time at lunch time, and obviously need to eat etc.
Would it be possible to get a dog walker to take him out just before you come home for lunch, even for half an hour?
He sounds as if he knows that you will be leaving him shortly and is making the most of his freedom :)
He probably needs a little more stimulation during the working day
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Cassie and Oblada – thanks for the positive comments, we are a young working couple who are trying our best and just hope that is good enough.

JSR – I have read your previous comments about crating elsewhere and am well aware of your thoughts towards it. It isn’t a crate it is actually a very large pen which knowing your opinions I am sure you will say is irrelevant. However I do not have a ‘puppy proof’ room that he can remain in within my apartment and will not allow him to wreck all of my furniture or more importantly possibly harm himself with a splinter off the wardrobe or a chipped floor tile etc. I completely agree that it is not the ideal situation to leave any animal in an enclosed space but the fact is that there are many other factors involved in making such a decision for yourself and it is not correct to simply state that crating a dog for more than 2 hours is cruel/unfair etc etc

Rona – the idea of a dog walker is a good one and labour costs are extremely cheap here however 95% of the population that is here in the middle east are petrified of dogs!! Even my little puppy!! He certainly is no mug and he knows that we are leaving him and is indeed making the most of his time with us but he is also settling a lot quicker in his pen when we leave which to me is encouraging. I would love to be in your situation where your life revolves around your dog and not the other way round but unfortunately I am not there yet! Maybe a few more years in the tax free sunshine and my better half can quit work as I know she wont let me be a stay at home dad to the dog!!!! ;)
 

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My dog is the same as yours in the way that he gets excited when i return. What i have started doing (his crate is left open when im out ) but i make him go to his crate and stay (with gate open) that way he wont associate you coming home with him coming to get gate open.

You could maybe do this while you get your lunch made, and feed him, then once your both finished you can have a little play with him?

Does this sounds reasonable?

if you dog is excited just give him the command for "bed" (everyone is fdiffere). then once he has calmed down you go to the cage and stroke him etc, if he gets hyper say bed again and walk away. this may take several visits but he will realise that once he is calm and you can pet him without being licked to death or trying to jump on you he will get out!. by opening the gate it gives him the freedom if needed.my puppy is really good now that if he is out and about in the hall and i come home i can look through glass and he will be jumping into bed waiting on me.

just a suggestion x
 

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JSR – I have read your previous comments about crating elsewhere and am well aware of your thoughts towards it. It isn’t a crate it is actually a very large pen which knowing your opinions I am sure you will say is irrelevant. However I do not have a ‘puppy proof’ room that he can remain in within my apartment and will not allow him to wreck all of my furniture or more importantly possibly harm himself with a splinter off the wardrobe or a chipped floor tile etc. I completely agree that it is not the ideal situation to leave any animal in an enclosed space but the fact is that there are many other factors involved in making such a decision for yourself and it is not correct to simply state that crating a dog for more than 2 hours is cruel/unfair etc etc
If you cannot give your dog the correct and right place to live then maybe you should have questioned why you got the dog in the first place. You have created this issue because of the enviourment you have choosen to force the puppy to live in and now you want a way out. Well the way out is to remove the cage the dog is shut in. I cannot begin to understand why putting a dog in a cage for hours on end is considered to be okay? It's nothing short of owning a zoo animal. Before this trend of caging our dogs how on earth do you think people coped? For goodness sake generations of families have bought up puppies that haven't died from chewing furniture or electricity wires!

As 0400772 states cages are NOT for the dogs to be shut into for long periods, there dog uses a crate but not as cell but as a secure and safe home so why not ask their advise on how to properly crate train instead of just locking the door and leaving the poor creature.

I'm really loosing faith in people today, this is supposed to be a pet lovers site but so far today we have people wanting to lock their dogs away and others admitting to hitting them as a form of training. I really do give up.
 

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If you cannot give your dog the correct and right place to live then maybe you should have questioned why you got the dog in the first place. You have created this issue because of the enviourment you have choosen to force the puppy to live in and now you want a way out. Well the way out is to remove the cage the dog is shut in. I cannot begin to understand why putting a dog in a cage for hours on end is considered to be okay? It's nothing short of owning a zoo animal. Before this trend of caging our dogs how on earth do you think people coped? For goodness sake generations of families have bought up puppies that haven't died from chewing furniture or electricity wires!

As 0400772 states cages are NOT for the dogs to be shut into for long periods, there dog uses a crate but not as cell but as a secure and safe home so why not ask their advise on how to properly crate train instead of just locking the door and leaving the poor creature.

I'm really loosing faith in people today, this is supposed to be a pet lovers site but so far today we have people wanting to lock their dogs away and others admitting to hitting them as a form of training. I really do give up.
Have to say I totally agree on this. Exactly how long is the dog kept in the cage for? If you cannot provide for the dog, then you shouldn;t have got one - very selfish! Not only that but you have helped bring yet another dog into the world! Maybe you should have got a rescue dog, who is already used to a cage rather than a pup - disgraceful! :mad:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quite frankly JSR I do wonder what exactly you are hoping to achieve with your consistent rants regarding crates and pens etc. If it is your purpose to simply denegrate people for not conforming to your idea of animal treatment then you are succeeding.

You do not know where my dog has come from and you do not know what could have happened to him if we hadn't adopted him. I would never use either of these points to justify any form of mis-treatment of an animal but for you to quite openly call me a bad dog owner is not acceptable.

This moral high-ground that you take with anyone that uses crates or pens with their dogs is completely ridiculous and un-founded. I have no problem in accepting that people in general, never mind dog owners alone, have differences in opinion hence my initial reply to you. However for you to question my decision to adopt my puppy when all you know of me is a few posts on an internet forum is outrageous.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh dear, yet another mis-informed respondent who’s instant reaction is to distribute vitriol and castagate. Goodvic2 I suggest you look at my previous posts on this forum to discover the background to my puppy BEFORE you make accusations about my suitability to be a dog owner.

However Goodvic2 I would like to ask you one question because you inadvertently raise a good point. Seeing as my pup was raised in a cage (after its mother was shot and it was left abandoned at the roadside of the local international airport) do you have any constructive advice regarding crating / penning? Which was actually my initial enquiry.
 

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You have choosen to come on a forum giving the information and then have a problem with the answers given? It doesn't really matter where your dog came from or what it's fate would have been, that is a mute subject because NOW the dog is in your care and you are responsible for all it's future. Many many dogs on this forum have come from backgrounds that are not ideal but as it is with dogs they only see the now and have no concept of what has been or could be. Therefore it's the now you need to take care of, and by caging this puppy for hours on end you have admitted to causing it distress, so please explain to me why I should accept that as different to any other form of cruelty?

It doesn't matter if I agree with crate training (and when done in the acceptable and usual form as with MANY owners) its certainly a tool that has it's uses, but as I've said when it's used as a cage and not a safe place of comfort then it becomes an issue that I do have a problem with.
 

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Yes - don't keep a pup caged for hours on end. that is my advice! What on earth do you expect your pup to behave like when you keep it locked up for so long? What would you be like if you were caged for that long?

I have no problem with crates and pens, but they are open to abuse. It just comes across as very selfish that you don;t want to ruin your home and that's why you keep him caged for so long.

I'm sorry, but that pup would have been better off with somebody who was able to give it what it needs. If you felt the need for a dog why not, as I said take on an adult rescue, one whose life you could have been improved? That pup would have had to problems getting a home.

Most people feel very strongly about caging animals, especially puppy's. You can't expect a dog lovers website to agree with what you are doing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
JSR -

As I have already said I do not have a problem with people having a different outlook and opinion on a matter to me. The reason I am on this forum is exactly that. So far in my experience of this forum I have come across some excellent advice, much of which being things that I wouldn’t have necessarily agreed with in the first instance. But you have questioned my ability to provide a loving home for my dog which is not acceptable.

Perhaps if I was on my own with this school of thought then my conviction in response to you would not have been so strong, but I am buoyed by the messages of support I have received on this website, from friends and family. But none of this is of any relevance to you because as far as you are concerned I am a bad owner who should never have adopted a dog in the first place. Quite how you have amassed the facts and knowledge of mine and my puppies circumstance to make that assessment is beyond me. You are willing to completely write me off as a good dog owner on the basis that I place my dog in a pen for longer than you feel is acceptable. I think that says a hell of a lot more about you than it does me.

I will not continue to converse with you as I don’t believe that you would ever offer me any constructive advice or support and quite frankly I wouldn’t accept any from you.
 
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i dont quite understand the reaction here...
The OP hasnt even said how long the dog is left in his pen for or has he?

The OP has a pen - better than a cage in my opinion (I personnally wouldnt use either but thats a different matter, it doesnt mean I have to butcher every other person that does it).

QUITE A FEW members of this forum use a crate for their dog more or less ALL DAY LONG (PLUS NIGHT) especially during puppyhood and yet others seem to accept that..but a newbie (to me at least lol didnt see ur posts before dohaspecial) comes along and gets butchered without even all the facts being ascertained!
I am seriously confused...

I mean I dont know his situation and I wouldnt condone locking a dog for any length..but others may see it differently..
in my mind it would depend on how big the pen is, what the routine of the dog is before and after, how long is he left alone, is it s temporary thing (chewing risks) or a long time solution etc etc!

at any rate I am sure everyone can find a respectful way to put their view across..
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Goodvic2 –

I am not surprised by my boys behaviour as I quite clearly stated in my intial post, it is clearly understandable. What I am asking is for some guidance on how to best deal with his behaviour so that it isn’t seen as naughty or bad. I don’t have a problem with him being excitable and bouncing around when I come home, these are the times when we bond the most. What I was initially asking was how best to work with him during these times?

I don’t think I am alone when I say I am concerned for his safety when left alone in a room filled with furniture? Only yesterday I pulled a mouthful of MDF splinters from his mouth where he had gotten at the wardrobe base. As my second post states my dog health is more important than my possessions.

Your 3rd paragraph again presumes to know the situation in a country that is 3,000 miles from you, in a culture that is most likely completely alien to you and in a place where dogs are seen as the lowest of the low due to the inherent fear of them within the local population. FYI his sister is still at the shelter they were taken to and has not yet been re-homed.

I have no problem with people having strong opinions, this is now the 3rd or 4th time I have stated this. My problem comes when my ability to care for my pet is called in to question. And as for your last sentence, I don’t think you have the right to talk for the whole membership of this website and if you take a look at some of the posts from other members on this thread I think you will find that your accusation is completely dis-proved.
 

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i dont quite understand the reaction here...
The OP hasnt even said how long the dog is left in his pen for or has he?

The OP has a pen - better than a cage in my opinion (I personnally wouldnt use either but thats a different matter, it doesnt mean I have to butcher every other person that does it).

QUITE A FEW members of this forum use a crate for their dog more or less ALL DAY LONG (PLUS NIGHT) especially during puppyhood and yet others seem to accept that..but a newbie (to me at least lol didnt see ur posts before dohaspecial) comes along and gets butchered without even all the facts being ascertained!
I am seriously confused...

I mean I dont know his situation and I wouldnt condone locking a dog for any length..but others may see it differently..
in my mind it would depend on how big the pen is, what the routine of the dog is before and after, how long is he left alone, is it s temporary thing (chewing risks) or a long time solution etc etc!

at any rate I am sure everyone can find a respectful way to put their view across..
I usually agree with you on everything, but this is one area I feel very strongly about. I have not seen a post where somebody crates their dog all day, but if I did I would say exactly the same thing!

The op has already said "he already spends so much time in his pen" and "feel like terrible owners for constantly 'imprisoning' our gorgeous puppy!! It sounds barbaric!

I cannot bare the thought of caged animals, especially a young pup who could have had a better start than "being constantly imprisioned" - this is the exact wording the OP used.

Quite honestly I am not surprised that more people are not upset about it.
 

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I would like to know who does keep their dogs caged ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT because I'm pretty sure they won't be putting their hands up to that.:rolleyes: Being a 'newbie' or whatever has absolutely nothing to do with it, I cannot understand the people that ask a question and because the answer isn't what they want throw their toys out the pram. They give out information to a public forum and then question the replies and responses to that information. I have yet to have an answer from the op to the exact length of time the puppy is caged and therefore can only guess it's an unacceptable period and judging by the puppies 'issues' that is confirming my belief.

And yes I will happily stand by my judgement that maybe you should rethink your suitability as this puppy's owner if you cannot offer it the time and patience needed. Not everyone's lifestyle suits owning puppies and just because you want one doesn't mean its right. There is a good reason that good rescues do not rehome puppies to working homes, and here is a perfect example of why.
 

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Goodvic2 –

Your 3rd paragraph again presumes to know the situation in a country that is 3,000 miles from you, in a culture that is most likely completely alien to you and in a place where dogs are seen as the lowest of the low due to the inherent fear of them within the local population. FYI his sister is still at the shelter they were taken to and has not yet been re-homed.

I.
Actually I can comment on a culture that has no respect for dogs. My first 2 are rescue's from Greece, I know first hand how these dogs are treated and the impact it has on them. They were caged for most of their life, when not on the streets, hence why I am so opposed to caging.
 
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I would be upset by this in normal circumstances but this is Qatar, completely different from our comfortable pet loving country.
The OP does genuinely seem to love their dog, and it is not in a crate but a pen, which I assume is considerably bigger in proportions
 
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