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Accidental puppies! Many questions!

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by GabiDeamer, Jun 6, 2019.


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  1. GabiDeamer

    GabiDeamer PetForums Newbie

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    Okay, so this is probably going to be a long post. About 3 and a half years ago we took in a rescue dog, Tilly, a Shar-Pei (with a million health conditions - more on that later). She is the most loyal dog you will ever meet, fiercely protective of my kids and home and especially me but she is also very anxious and takes a long time to warm up to new people (especially men). She recently, accidentally got pregnant by my 7 month old PUPPY! but all went well and she gave birth to 5 beautiful Shar-Pei pups. All girls. She done amazing during labour and delivery, basically text book. She gave birth in my bedroom and seemed most comfy there, so I moved the whelping box up there. All was well. I kept my other dog away (daddy dog) and she was being super mum. At around the 2 week mark, she begun spending all her time downstairs, and only going up to feed her pups when I go upstairs and stay in the room. If she’s midway through feeding and I get up to use the loo she will jump up and run after me leaving pups to fall to the floor from her teats. However this can change day by day. She can go up and spend a while upstairs without me but other times she can spend the whole day downstairs without a care if I didn’t take her up myself. They are 17 days old, and I’m wondering if I should start feeding puppy slop to he pups to boost their nutritional intake as they point blank refuse puppy milk. (They are all quite fat though, except our runt, who is just slim but not skin and bone so Shen is healthy) I’m also wondering if I should bring the whelping box downstairs - this does however pose another issue as she is fiercely protective over her pups and will not even allow my other dog to come upstairs, meaning I would have to put him upstairs through the day (he’s also a terror that chews and bites everything he finds if he gets bored). On top of all this...Tilly has had to stop taking her steroids (Shar-Pei skin issues) and has practically balded herself due to scratching and chewing. Her surgical scrub is barley helping the issue. She’s also going deaf due to inner ear issues - again...wonderful Shar-Pei issues, as well as looking like she’s hasn’t been fed in months (although I think this is obviously because of feeding the pups). I suppose what I’m asking is...HELP!
     
  2. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    It's a bit late to come for help. A dog with those health conditions should never have been bred from, it's likely the pups will inherit the same conditions. And anxiety too - anxious bitches shouldn't be bred from either. Why did you allow the pregnancy to continue? The mismate jab is widely available.
    If she's thin, feed her more (obviously). You could send the sire to stay with a friend, or use boarding kennels until the pups have gone. If she's feeding the pups and you want to get up, just don't - stay where you are. What a mess.
     
  3. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    At 17 days old, the pups do need Mum to spend more time with them than you are describing.

    Even if you begin weaning, they should still be able to top up from Mum and she should be cleaning the pups regularly and any mess they make.

    I think she's torn between her pups and being with you, so I would bring the whelping box downstairs.

    Do you have, or could borrow, a babygate, so you could confine the male to the kitchen or other room where he can still see the family?

    ETA - Mum should not be thin. I never had a bitch lose condition when nursing. She clearly is not getting adequate food to compensate for what nursing is taking out of her.

    She should be on a good quality, puppy food and really have as much as she wants. You could supplement her diet with sardines and broccoli, which provide added calcium, and chicken, beef, etc.
     
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  4. Linda Weasel

    Linda Weasel PetForums VIP

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    What’s done is done, however ill advised.

    Great advice from @Rafa, please take it.

    All you can do now is to make sure that, when the time comes, your pups are really well socialised with all shape, sizes and ages of people (not all at once so’s not to overwhelm them) but try to do something for them every day, once your girl is ok with it.

    You need to try to counter-act the anxieties that they may inherit or copy from their mum, so that they’re better prepared to go into the world as confident, friendly dogs.
     
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  5. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

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    Better warn potential adopters of all the health problems their mother has so they can be prepared. Poor things.

    And spay her.
     
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  6. GabiDeamer

    GabiDeamer PetForums Newbie

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    As mentioned previously, she was a rescue dog that we believe was beaten which is why she gets so anxious around new people (especially if she hears the sound of a chain) but has become an amazing dog due to the love we give her. We was also advised (from the vet) that the male dogs sperm would be too immature to fertilise her. We thought we had gotten away with it until it was too late and I was not going to have the puppies aborted so far into the pregnancy because of how it could potentially affect Tilly. As said before what’s done is done, the puppies are very large, loud and moving about with no signs of skin or eye issues which is great as they are majority Shar-Pei. As for Tilly’s weight, she is being fed baked chicken breast with either rice or pasta 2 times a day as well as dog food mixed with puppy kibble. I feel if I feed her anymore she will start vomiting it all back up! After looking at messages and thinking about it, I do think I’ll bring the whelping box downstairs. I do have a baby gate however this is easily jumped over by our male dog so I will have to find a solution to that issue.

    As much as I appreciate the messages and advice, I did not post on this forum to be challenged. Accidental dog pregnancies happen. This is my first and will be my only litter of puppies. I did not take Tilly in to breed her, we took her in to love and care for her and give her a home. Which we have done. Again thank you for messages and advice, maybe not so harsh next time?
     
  7. GabiDeamer

    GabiDeamer PetForums Newbie

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  8. ForestWomble

    ForestWomble PetForums VIP

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    I've just googled it and you can buy tall baby gates for dogs, so if you can, that will hopefully be tall enough to stop your male jumping over.
     
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  9. Rafa

    Rafa PetForums VIP

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    I don't believe that's a good diet for a nursing bitch.

    I would use a good quality puppy food as the base diet, supplemented by other things, which I mentioned above. Rice pudding can be a good addition too.

    I would feed her four times a day.
     
  10. lullabydream

    lullabydream PetForums VIP

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    Accidental pregnancy happens...but accidental litters can be prevented.

    It makes it even worse that a rescue dog has had to go through pregnancy.

    I can't understand any vet saying a young 7 month old couldn't impregnate a female dog. The reason why vets were advocating neutering at 6 months old, not all do advocate neutering now is for exactly that; impregnating females.
     
  11. Sarah H

    Sarah H Grand Empress of the Universe

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    Whoever told you that at 7 months the sperm would be immature is telling you porkies. Males can be fertile from FOUR MONTHS OLD. Also a rescue bitch should have been spayed as soon as possible, especially when she has so many issues. I have a shar pei x and she was a rescue, born in the pound to a very stressy Mum who also doesn't have the best temperament. I got her spayed after her first season as there was no way I would want to breed from a) a dog of unknown parentage, b) a dog without a perfect temperament, c) a breed (and individual) with lots of known health issues, and d) because it was part of the adoption contract.

    Also anyone knows to keep entire dogs apart when the bitch is in season, no matter how old.
    Unfortunately you have created problems allowing this bitch to have pups, as you are seeing. She needs good quality puppy food - as much as you can get her to eat. The pups need to be on a worming schedule too.
    If I were you I'd contact a local rescue to help you rehome them properly and make sure they get neutered when old enough, and make sure your bitch gets spayed too!
     
  12. kittih

    kittih PetForums VIP

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  13. Dogloverlou

    Dogloverlou PetForums VIP

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    So many issues here! But main thing is to take the advice offered to you from other posters to deal with the here & now.

    I totally agree about being upfront & honest about the health of the mother though. A lot of skin issues can have hereditary factors and as she has a nervy disposition her pups haven't exactly been set up well. However, as long as you are honest & agree to taking any puppy back at whatever stage of their life, at least you have done all you can to help future owners make decisions on taking a pup etc.

    The vet sounds unknowledgeable quite frankly suggesting the male would not be fertile. Any prior Internet research would tell you otherwise ;)
     
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  14. StormyThai

    StormyThai Moderator
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    You have had some great advice so I won't add more...but please find a new vet if they really did suggest that an entire dog could not impregnate a bitch...that is just basic biology.
    I also hope that you have informed the rescue that you have bred one of their dogs...I'm surprised that she didn't come with a neuter contract tbh.

    Please neuter both of your dogs so that they don't "accidentally" mate again :(
     
  15. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    Good luck with it. Definitely feed your bitch more spread out over several meals so she can cope with it. She should not really be getting thin. I showed a bitch soon after a litter had left and got best in show so definitely no need for them to lose condition.

    Looking at the photos of the very cute pups, one thing springs to mind. Have you cut the nails yet. You should really cut them weekly or they will scratch the bitch and if she is not very maternal (as it sounds like) she might just go off feeding them altogether.

    Now you have them try and enjoy them but take on board you were given bad advice by the vet and it could have been avoided.

    Keep us all updated with photos!
     
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  16. Lurcherlad

    Lurcherlad PetForums VIP

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    Whilst I appreciate you don’t want any negative comments on this thread as “what’s done is done” those comments may serve to inform someone else in the future who is facing a similar dilemma and searching for advice.

    Hopefully, they will then be in a position to make the best decision for their bitch.

    Lots of good advice though on feeding and the other issues so, hopefully, your bitch will settle and be kept well nourished while she suckles her pups who are, of course, beautiful ;)
     
  17. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    A late abortion wouldn't have had the detrimental effect on her health as having the litter and coming off her steroids, let alone what the pups may inherit and have to go through in their lives.
     
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  18. Blitz

    Blitz PetForums VIP

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    I have never been in the position but I would not do a late abortion and not sure that many vets would either. The mistake was to believe the vet who said the mating would not result in a pregnancy - or a step back, to get a dog pup when you have an entire bitch. But it is done now and help is needed with the live pups not the maybes or should haves.
     
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  19. lorilu

    lorilu PetForums VIP

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    ^^^^This
     
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