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ABS, is it worth joining?

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by pearltheplank, Apr 7, 2011.


  1. pearltheplank

    pearltheplank PetForums VIP

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    After reading another thread, it would seem the ABS isn't flawless and there are puppy farmers/unreputable breeders that are accreddited. So my question, is it actually worth becoming an AB?
     
  2. tillywink

    tillywink Banned

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    We are a current member and think it's a total joke and waste of £15.
     
  3. casandra

    casandra PetForums VIP

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    I don't think I would join if I were to have a litter of puppies in the near future (which I am not). There would have to be so much more done to protect and support the dogs themselves than what they call for at this point in time.

    If I had a litter, I would be politely explaining to anyone interested in a puppy the exact reasons why I feel the ABS is not up to scratch. With Pomeranians for instance, there are no required tests that should be performed. Not even any recommended! Poms suffer from Luxating Patellas and Eye problems and SHOULD be on that list. Heart Testing isn't there for Dobermanns. Its just another money making scheme and I am not going to be a part of it unless it shapes up to my personal standards as a potential breeder.
     
  4. Old Shep

    Old Shep PetForums VIP

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    I don't know anything about breeding but when I am looking for my next dog I intended only looking at accredited breeders. Can anyone explain why there is such ill feeling about the scheme? Surely it's at least a standard--maybe not a great standard--but a standard nonetheless? A breeder who is not part of the scheme has no standard at all.
     
  5. casandra

    casandra PetForums VIP

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    Wrong. We have our own personal standards.
     
  6. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    You will get a huge range of opinions on the ABS :(

    I am a member, like many, I recognise it isn't perfect, but they are making great steps to improve - working closely with the breed clubs to tighten up breed specific requirements.

    I think breeders need to get behind it - because there are potential alternatives which are unthinkable if the ABS doesn't work.

    The best way to change anything is from the inside out, so once a member, you have the opportunity to get your voice heard louder and clearer.

    The difficult part is making if clear to prospective puppy owner is that an unaccredited breeder doesn't make it a bad one, and visa versa - and TBH - I think ANY prospective puppy buyer should be applying the same rules wherever and whoever they buy from - i.e. do their research and trust their instincts
     
    leoti likes this.
  7. candysmum

    candysmum PetForums VIP

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    and that personal standard is a lot lot higher than the ABS.
     
  8. Devil-Dogz

    Devil-Dogz PetForums VIP

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    I agree with Swarthy - we have been a member for a few years now, and it was only sept 2010 that we have our 'home visit' something that is starting for all members, and them trying to join - which I think is a good step in the right direction. There was alot of stuff covered in the home check, down to how the dogs are fed and walked, and how we find suitable homes.. I understand that there will be unethical breeders that slip through the net on to the scheme, but then again there are just as many bad breeders not on it..So if you are on the scheme or not you will be among the irresponsible, by putting yourself on to the scheme you are giving your self the ability to be seen for the ethical breeder you are. I do know that the KC have removed breeders off the scheme since home checking, through reports ect. The KC cant keep tracks on all their registered breeders at all times, so if you are not happy with the practices of an AB then its down to you to report them, so the KC are aware and can investigate. I think the ABS has the potential to be a great help, and in time with decent breeders help it can and will make a difference. I can not see why any decent breeder would not want to be apart of that - although I can kind of understand!
    Our breed does also require, nor recommend no health testing - we do the three tests we do because we are passionate about the breeds, and our dogs welfare and want others to follow, and to encourage buyers to be more selective when choosing a pup. There are known health issues in our breed although not on a big scale, they are there and whether we are required to do them or not we shall continue, I would hope any ethical breeder would do the same.. whether on a scheme that says they should or not..They should be doing it because they want to and can see the benefit, not because their told to!!
     
    #8 Devil-Dogz, Apr 7, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2011
  9. Old Shep

    Old Shep PetForums VIP

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    Interesting replies. For me (ie not an expert) I would still be more likeley to buy a pup from an AB than from one who is not (though I would be much happier if the AB had ben home visited. The KC can't be expected to have home visited all the breeders at once. It'll take time to visit everyone on the scheme-and re visit, of course!).

    Every prospecitive dog owner must do their homework and should know what health issues their chosen breed is at risk from and what tests there are for these.
    They should also be aware of what to look for in a "good" breeder, as well as the signs to look for that a breeder is wanting.

    I'll still seek my pup from an AB. I know the standards they are expected to acheive.

    I have no idea what a non accredited breeder's standards are. That's the whole point of the scheme, surely?
     
  10. reddogs

    reddogs PetForums Senior

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    I am a member of the scheme - this will be my second litter but first under it, I joined because I think that ultimately it will be a good thing although still flawed.

    Regarding health tests, these are required/recommended by the KC once the breed clubs have asked for them to be there, they don't just magically appear and it can take a while for them to appear, in our breed I think it was several years for dna eye tests to become required and recorded by the KC despite them being proven.

    If you believe a breed has a problem that should be tested for then you have to get on to your breed health co-ordinator(s) and petition for it to happen - if you don't participate in the breed club activities then the same people will be making the same decisions on your behalf and may be so entrenched in their opinions that they just don't see that something has become a problem. But remember that they aren't just going to go with whatever is the 'new fashion' for testing as this may end up being pointless it will have to be proven that it has helped breed health.

    No point in complaining and saying that 'they' should do something about it - you are 'they'
     
  11. dexter

    dexter PetForums VIP

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    i'm not a member of the scheme and never will be. my youngster has all the relevant health tests , i didn't breed very often ( 3-4 years) . my bitches are now spayed , and i feel i can give potential buyers more breed advice (had my first litter in 1980 , started showing in 1978, judge shelties and roughs) than someone who has been in the breed 5 mins is an AB and churns out litters. JMO x
     
  12. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    I know your view is one held by many experienced breeders, and some new breeders - and along with many, I have my opinion on the schemes benefits and flaws.

    I do however get a little nervous at the implicit faith people place in scheme members - it is vitally important that people do their research and use a combination of common sense and gut instinct when buying a pup, and if they are not happy, walk away.

    ======================================

    Just to give you an example on the 'standards' - as an ABS in Labs, the scheme says I must hipscore my dogs and have annual eye certificates done.

    As a breeder, I hip AND elbow score, DNA test for PRA and CNM, and get annual eye certiicates. I did these tests before joining the scheme and will continue to do so.

    Likewise on contracts and endorsements etc, as do many others, I go far and above the scheme requirements in terms of information, support etc for new owners.

    ==========================================

    Long term, I think (and feel it MUST) succeed - but it's like picking a childminder - even if the childminder was registered - would that be sufficient for you to leave your child with them without using common sense and being happy with the surroundings that child is in - why should buying a puppy be any different?
     
  13. dexter

    dexter PetForums VIP

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    so far this year i've reported 2 AB registered breeders who were selling their pups unregistered and one had even bred a cross litter, i had to give KC ALL their details, advert links , name etc. telephone details. !!!!

    In my breed there are very few AB's
     
  14. bassetsandbeyond

    bassetsandbeyond PetForums Senior

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    me and mum joined the ABS in January, so far so good. We were going to join a few years back but unfortunatly there wasn't enough ABS Basset breeders about...
    Also the KC have got abit tougher with bassets, specially in the ring, they want all Bassets health tested (Glucoma) before they recieve Best of Breed. At least we're ready for it:D
     
  15. pickle

    pickle PetForums Senior

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    The ABS can only work if decent breeders get behind it. It is still in its infancy really, I think there needs to be more "tweaking" and ideas thrown into the mix. However, I think it is a start, and hopefully now home visits are being made those on the scheme will be worthy of the name.
     
  16. dexter

    dexter PetForums VIP

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    whilts i agree in principle there are many who sign up and have been accepted who haven't a clue abut anything breed related.
     
  17. leoti

    leoti PetForums VIP

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    I am a ABS member and as Swarthy says once your a member you have the opportunity to have your voice heard
    And the more Breeders who enter into the scheme and get behind it , the better the ABS will be come , we can only worm the bad ones out if the good ones join JMHO
     
  18. dexter

    dexter PetForums VIP

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    but the bad ones aren't being outed they are allowed to get away with advertising unregistered pups .
     
  19. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    I'm a member of the ABS too - like others have said, I don't think the scheme is faultless but I do think it's getting better - far more inspections are being carried out and over 400 breeders who did not meet the criteria have been thrown off - the bottom line is that we need some kind of accreditation sceme to distinguish the good from the bad and there's no doubt that puppy buyers are looking for a 'kite mark' of quality to help them base their puppy buying decsions on - if we are doing it all correctly anyway then why not join ?


    My gut feeling is that an accreditation scheme will be forced on us anyway if we don't support the Kc one - and who knows what criteria will be used - at least the KC is on the side of the good breeder - the Government will just be interested in imposing restrictions and making money from us ! !
     
  20. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    :( as I said in my original post, the alternatives are far less palatable :(
     
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