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2 ways to deal with * Jumping-Up *...

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by leashedForLife, May 13, 2010.


  1. leashedForLife

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  2. sue&harvey

    sue&harvey PetForums VIP

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    Love the second one, the music reflects the happy session and Layla is beautiful, and the tail never stopped wagging. :thumbup:
     
  3. TobyK9

    TobyK9 Banned

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    Well the chained up dog looked more stressed to me.

    Cesars only crime was that he didn't say 'please mr doggy' and he didn't give it loads of food to bribe it, he instructed it instead. Bad man! No big mac as a treat or anything
     
  4. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    Cesars way was much better.:thumbup:
     
  5. jen24

    jen24 Banned

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    yep i agree cesars way was better. the poor dog in the second video couldnt jump because he was tied up! you could see him trying!
     
  6. jen24

    jen24 Banned

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
  7. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    Now had that been Cesar he would have been classed as being cruel.:(
     
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  8. jen24

    jen24 Banned

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    Exactly. i dont think ive ever seen cesar tie a dog up to train it. he doesnt need to, he also understands a dog may need to run from a situation if its scared or fretful, if its tied up, it cant, hence stressing the dog out unnessesarily.
     
  9. CarolineH

    CarolineH PetForums VIP

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    First dog panting and lip licking. Second dog calmer and happy, no stress related signals. I watch the dogs rather than the people.
     
  10. jen24

    jen24 Banned

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    dogs also pant and lip lick when excited, hungry, thirsty, playful!!

    the second god was hyper not calm at all, he was all over the place trying to jump and get to them!
     
  11. CarolineH

    CarolineH PetForums VIP

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    Yes it was - at first. But then the second dog actually started to learn after just a few minutes that people walked away if it did that so realised that lying down got it the attention instead. ;)
     
  12. jen24

    jen24 Banned

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    the first dog learnt to sit and wait patiently in a few seconds! the second dog was worn out after all the lunging at them!
     
  13. CarolineH

    CarolineH PetForums VIP

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    :cool:I bow to your greater knowledge. :001_cool:

    You will see what you want to see, Most celebrity obsessed people do.
    :rolleyes:
    I watch the dogs. They tell the whole story.
     
  14. jen24

    jen24 Banned

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    well thank you, lol :lol:

    im not celebrity obssessed in the slightest. and i do see what i want to see, not what others dictate to me. it is clear the first dog is alot calmer and happier, the second is being wound up and teased!
     
  15. TobyK9

    TobyK9 Banned

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    I personaly don't watch his shows and for the most part a lot of the dogs do look very scared through most of his techniques. On the examples given on the two videos on this thread the question was just simply which one looks more stressed, I just see what's on the videos, I can't see anything else to comment on and the 2nd dog looked stressed, I didn't really see it in the first video. Its nothing to do with being celebrity obessed, you could say the same when it's reversed, celebrity haters will hate the celeb no matter they do and only see bad things in what they do even when two videos are presented side by side showing the opposite. Its swings and roundabouts really.
    I just follow what works best for me, I think that some techniques suit some people better than others. I couldn't ignore a dogs bad behaviour yet stuff its face when it does 1 good thing, but some people can and it works for them, nothing wrong with it, but on the same note there's nothing wrong with other peoples methods if they work for them.

    Was interesting to see the two videos though :D
     
  16. billyboysmammy

    billyboysmammy PetForums VIP

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    1st vid - trainer uses the hand with the choke chain swinging the push the dog down, then hits its bum. Then he teaches the owner to kick the dog - his reason?, becaue she is behaving badly its ok for the owner to abuse.

    2nd vid... dog is not chained, it does have a rope though, so i can see how people would not like it.

    To be honest 2nd vid is the method i would choose and much easier to do if your training your dog on your own!
     
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  17. JANICE199

    JANICE199 PetForums VIP

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    :confused: did we watch the same clip? i've watched the 1st one 3 times and nowhere can i see what you are saying.:(
     
  18. billyboysmammy

    billyboysmammy PetForums VIP

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    janice i kept rewinding the vid because i honestly couldnt believe it myself, but there it is.


    28seconds in... he pushes her away with the chain
    30 seconds he hits her - and she yelps!
    1min27seconds - taught to kick the dog
    1min44seconds owner questions the kick as abusive, trainer says its ok because she is abusing you.

    I see a big difference myself in blocking a dog and kicking a dog, in the same way as i find a big difference in unbalancing a dog by moving forward to pushing the dog away whilst wielding a heavy chain!

    I honestly wanted to like the first vid, not least because the dog has the same name as my daughter lol (different spelling though).
     
    #18 billyboysmammy, May 13, 2010
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
  19. ArwenLune

    ArwenLune PetForums Senior

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    That's a sad point of view... the dog is not abusing anyone, the dog is just overly enthusiastic and hasn't been taught to contain herself.

    The follow-up sessions of the second method are interesting watching: you can see the dog start to think and even self-correct, and she is rewarded heavily for making the right choices.

    YouTube - #2 Layla - modifying 'dog jumping up' behavior-session #2 of 6 Session 2
    YouTube - #3 Layla - modifying 'jumping up behavior' session #3 of 6 Session 3: Outside with distractions
    YouTube - #4 Layla - modifying 'dog jumping up' behavior session #4 Session 4: Inside off-leash now
    YouTube - #5 Layla - modifying 'dog jumping up' behavior - session #5 Session 5: At home practice as the door
    YouTube - #6 Layla - modifying 'dog jumping up ' behavior #6 of 6! Session 6: behaving beautifully in a crowded street. Happy, relaxed dog!
     
  20. leashedForLife

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    dammit, thats what happens when U live in another *later* time-zone :lol: --
    U get in late on all the good stuff! :laugh: :thumbup:


    Layla has been taught that offering *calm behavior* and SITs gets her positive attention -
    she was NOT taught that jumping-up gets me punished.

    so her approaching ppl (recall, anyone? :rolleyes: how about a finish with a retrieved-item in Utility exercises in obedience?)
    has not been * tainted * with a potential for bad-things.

    she has learned the new, preferred behavior as rewarding -
    but ** without ** a history of punishment -- which could un-predictably surface elsewhere -- or in the same / similar circs, if her re-training had been repeated unpleasant, stressful experiences -- as anxiety, bolting, hiding, barking, snapping at strangers approaching hands, etc.

    if she had learned that running to me resulted in being KNEED forcefully in her chest...
    what could happen to her recall? can U see that Layla, Come! could be a seriously-poisoned cue?

    this dog is a pet, and at 2 or 3-YO (i forget her exact age), she had a long-established history of FORCEFUL jumps
    to HIT people - she had hurt adults, many times. her version of jump-up was not mere dirty paws on ones clothes -
    she knocked grown-ups flying.


    in 6-weeks, with weekly sessions with a trainer + homework with her owner (except for One Week,
    when her owner was sick in bed), Layla learned a solid new-behavior: to stand calmly or sit to meet ppl -
    and she can ** safely ** be walked along a crowded sidewalk, without lunging once - which was impossible, before.

    she walks on a loose-leash, theres no choke-collar, no prongs, no jerking, no threat of potential shock... shes relaxed, happy
    and not stressed. several-years practice of a vice; then SIX weekly-lessons, and homework, all without force?

    i;d say thats a success. :biggrin:
    --- terry
     
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