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2 Questions: GSD puppy coat colours & prices

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by Delfina, Jul 8, 2009.


  1. Delfina

    Delfina PetForums Newbie

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    Hello again,
    =========
    *Update*
    The section in smaller text below is no longer an issue. Thank you all for you help and advice on the matter, I will be walking away from the black & tan GSD litter. If you still have thoughts on the WGSD's skip on to that section
    ========
    This weekend we are possibly heading up to Yorkshire to consider 2 males from a litter of GSD puppies, so I have a quick question about GSD puppy coats.
    I understand that the puppies coats change as they age, but at what age do they keep their coat patterns?

    The little fellows I'll be looking at have parents that both feature the more well known saddle-back GSD coat (here's Dad), but the two male pups are mostly black at the moment (7 weeks old) and I want to know if you think they'll fade into their parents colours as they grow, or if they'll remain mostly bi-colour, or if I should be expecting a blanket backed dog when he's older.
    The pups look like this:
    http://www.artoki.co.uk/Pup4.jpg
    http://www.artoki.co.uk/Pup3.jpg



    On a side note, I'm actually caught between two different litters. The above come with KC reg and are £350 but I will have to travel quite far to see them. By the time I've seen them my other option (the WGSD's mentioned below) will probably be gone as I can only travel at weekends. Hipscore on the black and tan GSD's Dad is 4, and on their Mum is 8 and 26 (uneven hips)

    My other option is a White German Shepherd pup. Also at £350 (£400 for girls) but these fellows don't have KC papers. Their Dad is KC reg, but not their Mum. Only Dad is hipscored, and he is a 10. The owners have had a litter only once before, and this will be the last, they are not breeders. I have visted the WGSD's already, and met the whole doggy family. Mum is a rescued GSD, hence no papers.
    Here's a YouTube video of them and their last litter:
    YouTube - white german shepherds

    Both sellers talked at length and seemed friendly and caring about their dogs. I love the White GSDs, but I'm concerned about the price for non KC reg- am I being had? I don't need them to be KC Reg, I only want a loving pet, but I don't like the feeling that I might be being taken advantage of. Thoughts please?

    ========
    *Update*
    The section above still seems a matter of debate on this thread. A lot of people are telling me I should consider going to a professional breeder with both parents hip scored. I understand why it is important for the health of the puppy to check hip scoring but at the same time, I'm not in the market to spend breeder prices. I think I need to clarify, I am not looking for a dog to breed, to show, to work or to compete. I only wish for a loving family pet. I originally intended to welcome a kennel rescue dog into my home with plans of spending up to £200, but poor luck ment we didn't get either rescue dog we wanted. We are now considering a puppy. We are not poor and are very capable of looking after our new friend, but my partner and I do not wish to spend a lot of money on a champion sired dog. We are first time owners who are quite happy with a cross breed fluff-ball mutt so long as we love him when we meet him. We are not prepared to pay £600+ for a dog, at least not yet. Perhaps on our second dog in many years time after we have more experience. The white GSD's made us reconsider our limit, but we are still concerned about paying £350 for a puppy when only the father is health checked and hi scored. We are prepared to pay it, and probably will pay it this coming weekend, but wanted to hear your opinion to help sway our doubts.
    ===========
     
    #1 Delfina, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
  2. The reason theat the whites are not KC registered is because they are not an acceptable coloured so consequently cannot be registered! It's not so long back that many breeders would have culled these at birth! My advise would be that so long ats the breeder has done to recommended health checks -- certainly the hip scoring at the very least then I would have no problem whatsoever with one of these! Even the best breeders can carefully check lines ect and still end up with an odd colour throw! The price sounds reasonable in my opinion!
    Sorry have been of little help - unable to reply to your other query regarding the coats!!
    DT
     
  3. Need to add! sounds like you are doing your homework anyway! you need to check the norm for GSD hipscores - should be easy to find!
    regards
    DT
     
  4. Nicky09

    Nicky09 PetForums VIP

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    I don't know about the coats but I would be uneasy buying the KC litter with the mums hips like that. Gsds have notoriously bad hips especially the showlines. I would say as long as the white gsds are health tested especially with the hips then there's no problem buying them.
     
  5. staceydawlz

    staceydawlz PetForums VIP

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    well up here a white GSD would cost 500-600 with pappers if that helps!! i like white too they r lovely!! hopefuly sum1 more expierienced will come long and help u out with hip scores etc...
     
  6. Natik

    Natik PetForums VIP

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    When young the german shepherds coat is pretty dark and gets lighter when they get older and by time they develope the saddle, so they definitly will get lighter than they are now.
     
  7. staceydawlz

    staceydawlz PetForums VIP

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    if i were u i wouldnt go for the odd hips...could pass down and the pup cud hav bad hips..
     
  8. EmzieAngel

    EmzieAngel PetForums VIP

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    I don't know much about GSDs
    But as others have said, I would definitely not go for the one with uneven hips.
     
  9. dexter

    dexter PetForums VIP

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    taken from KC breed standard guide

    Colour
    Black or black saddle with tan, or gold to light grey markings. All black, all grey, with lighter or brown markings referred to as Sables. Nose black. Light markings on chest or very pale colour on inside of legs permissible but undesirable, as are whitish nails, red-tipped tails or wishy-washy faded colours defined as lacking in pigmentation. Blues, livers, albinos, whites (i.e. almost pure white dogs with black noses) and near whites highly undesirable. Undercoat, except in all black dogs, usually grey or fawn. Colour in itself is of secondary importance having no effect on character or fitness for work. Final colour of a young dog only ascertained when outer coat has developed.


    BTW ANYONE who has a litter be it pedigree , cross etc is a BREEDER imo
     
  10. sallyanne

    sallyanne Guest

    Is there any reason fr the high hipscore an accident maybe ?

    The males should also be haemophila tested.
     
  11. I dont know enough about the puppy coat colours, so unable to help there...

    As to the white GSD's DT has pretty much covered it...

    White GSD's cant be KC registered. However thats the one piece of paper that isnt so important unless you want a show/breeding dog. The most important pieces of paper are the health test results. If both parents (and puppies if applicable) have had the relevent reccomended health tests and passed, then you should be buying healthy pups.
     
  12. thedogsmother

    thedogsmother PetForums VIP

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    Hi,obviously I am a bit biased on the white colour, White GSD's can be KC registered (mine is) however they are a non standard colour, this site will tell you all you need to know about the history of white/non standard colour coats The White & Long Coat German Shepherd Society. Henricks hip scores are 1 and 3 and although I was advised when looking for pups that up to 14 was acceptable obviously the lower the better. Henrick cost £600 and you get what you pay for £600 was average when I was looking for him last year. Hope you find a wonderful pup. Just to add if you choose to own a white or non standard coat GSD and want to show him/her you can only do so in a WALCC(see link) show and not a KC one.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. hutch6

    hutch6 PetForums VIP

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  14. Delfina

    Delfina PetForums Newbie

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    Thank you everyone for your input! You've been very helpful in aiding me with my decision. At the very least it helps to chat it out like this and put thought to papar. Well, forum... monitor... keyboard? You get the idea ^_~

    Individual responses:

    DoubleTrouble
    Thank you DT^^ Your opinon helps to lessen my concern about the White GSDs. They really were lovely to look at, and both parents had beautiful temprements. They shed like I've never seen before mind, we'll be vacuming three times as often I'll wager, hahaha, but I have time to groom daily so hopefully it wont be tooooooooo much trouble.

    Sallyanne
    No accident was mentioned. That said, the owner made no attempt to hide the facts about her hipscore or made any excuses. He was very helpful and chatty, and quick to tell me from the start that Mother's hips were uneven (she looks normal mind, and has not yet had any problems) so I didn't have to poke or prod. Very upfront and honest person who I enjoyed talking to. He was all about helping and not about pushing a sale onto me in the slightest. Too bad I'll have to call him to tell him 'no' as it sounds like I'll probably going for the whites after all, I really did like the fellow selling the coloured GSD's.
    People are always quick to tell you to check the temprements of the dogs before you buy, but I think the owners temprement is important too.

    I'll double check with the WGSD owner about haemophila tests, she did show me his papers and health certificates, but to be honest I didn't know for sure what I was look for on the papers themselves.

    TheDogsMother
    Thank you for the link. Too bad I don't know the hip scre for the whites mother, the father is a 10, which I'm satisfied with.
    £600 sounds quite reasonable for a WGSD with papers to me, but my concern comes that I'd be paying £350 for one without papers or a mothers health check. It's not that I can't afford it, it's just that I've seen unregistered GSDs going much, much cheaper. Unfortunately, we have a time window for getting our new friend. My partner is a teacher, and we both feel it is best for all concerned if we get the puppy while he's not at work, so at the begining of the school holidays. This in mind, we can't wait too long for another litter. I -am- happy with this litter, meeting them was a treasure! I guess I'm just a worrier with too tight-a-grip on my purse ^^;

    By the way, Henrick looks stunning in that siggy photo!

    Hutch6
    Originally, although we loved the idea of getting a puppy, we felt it would be better to give a forever home to a dog in need. We looked at our local Rescue Kennels, and checked a few not so local ones online. One of the first we checked and contacted was GermanShepherdRescue.co.uk . We filled in a form as per site request, and emailed them, but never heard back. We were hoping to give a home to Alfie, a beautiful looking saddle backed GSD male with the right temprement for first time owners like ourselves and who was in our region, but about a month has passed without word, and unfortunately for us he's gone to another home now anyway.
     
  15. LostGirl

    LostGirl PetForums VIP

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    I love any colour GSD :)

    A pup i know since around 16weeks old hasnt changed colour yet hes 8months old now hes got slight lighter on his bum hair thats about it lol

    she paid £400 for two pups lucky had right health tests etc only problem they found out just after was that he has a slightly overshot jaw.

    a normal price for a gsd here is around £600 but i have seen them as cheap as £495 and as exspensive as £750
     
  16. Dundee

    Dundee Banned

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    Honestly - walk away from both litters. There's no excuse for not hip scoring both parents and although the one high score could be due to an accident it would have to be an extremely bad accident (ie being knocked by a car or something like that) to have that sort of effect. In a breed that is notorious for poor hips, the likelihood is that it is simply down to poor hips.
     
  17. sequeena

    sequeena PetForums VIP

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    Different breeders charge different prices for GSDs so I think the average is between £400-£600. If a breeder is trying to up the price for a 'rare' GSD don't bother, if they can be registered the colour is not 'rare'.

    Sky came to me as a fully black GSD at weeks. She's 8 months old now and white is coming through in her fur particularly under her tail, her back legs and underneath her front legs. Her back also has a slight brownish tinge to it. I'm not sure when their coat is fully developed, around 2 years possibly.

    Also: If a breeder is not willing to hip/elbow score then they are not worth any of your time and money.
     
  18. Rebecca and the pack

    Rebecca and the pack PetForums Junior

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    What I was going to say has been covered. My Zeus was a very light sable colour as a pup and now is moslty black (see my signature) He looks like a totally different dog. his patterns completley changed.
     
  19. Taylorbaby

    Taylorbaby PetForums VIP

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    Hiya ANY colour GSD from Liver (my fav) to silver sable to white to b&T can be reg'd thats jsut whast the KC say is 'standard' which I dont really care for I prefer long coats 'non standard' colours :)

    good link, your boy is stunning!

    26 & 8 is NOT a good hip score 17 is the max for a GSD, so 26 & 8 = 34!!!

    This is not acceptable.

    remember that the males have to be hemo tested both parents need to be hip AND elbow scored.

    GSDs' 'non kc reg no ped papers & no tests' down near me are around £250-350'

    Coulrs and girls should NEVER be more than boys ot other colours no colour on a GSD is 'rare' and the reason why people say more for girls is...they say people can breed them.

    Ive never ever seen a good breeder charge for more another sex or colour in the dog world.

    I haev some amazing friends who breed GSD's & I will be showing & hopefully breeding in the future GSD's are AMAZING dogs I can pass you on to some of my friends if you like?

    Also Never get 2 pups from the same litter & same age, they will have a bond stronger than you will ever have with them and its also harder to train (not impossible) Better off with one dog & say a year l;ater whens his fully trained getting another pup who can follow him & he can help with training....:D

    Good luck, but I wouldnt buy from either of those breeders!


    They wont let first time GSD owners have rescues I tried for about a year to foster (or maybe it was just foster?) and it was a no from every place, they said come back when you have had a GSD for a few years!
     
    #19 Taylorbaby, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
    1 person likes this.
  20. Delfina

    Delfina PetForums Newbie

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    Dundee and Sequeena, on hip scoring.
    With the black and tan coloured GSDs, both parents have their hip scores, but the mothers hip score is unfavorable so I'm afraid I will be walking away from this litter after all. Thanks eveyone for the advice on this matter.

    A quick check online tells me that in order to score a dog, it must be at least 12 months old and Kennel Club registered. Unsure of the reliability of this online source, I made a call to my vets to double check and they confirmed it, they can't hip-score a none KC reg dog. Well, the female WGSD isn't KC registered, so that would probably explain why she isn't hip-scored.

    Sequeena£400 to £600 is reasonable, certainly I've seen a fair few GSDs at those rates, but typically at those rates I would also be expecting papers, both hip scores, early insurance and such.
    The breeder (though she's not a pro breeder, she's just 'an ordinary woman whose dogs have have pups' to quote her) hasn't used the word 'rare' once to try to force the deal, but she has been quick to tell us several times that we'd be paying a lot more is both parents had the papers. She seems to care a great deal about her dogs and has flooded us with advice from where to get the wipes for their eyes to how to groom them without pulling their fur too much. She asked as many questions about us as we did about her, wanting to make sure her pups went to good homes. I don't think she is a bad person, and she's made it very clear she loves and cares for her dogs. I personally was concerned that she was asking too much for them, but I do not doubt her genuine love for the animals, or her concern that they get good homes. The female is a resuce dog (why she doens't have her papers).


    Rebecca and the Pack
    Thank you for telling me of your experiences with coat colour. As it happens, we wont be going for the black and tan coloured puppies after all, but it's good to know just the same. Thanks!
     
    #20 Delfina, Jul 8, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
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