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Easy raw recipe

21K views 101 replies 23 participants last post by  lorilu 
#1 ·
Ok, as started over on another thread, I have set a challenge for The Venerable Hobbs to create and post an EASY and complete raw recipe.
I think too many people worry that you have to be a scientist to put together a balanced raw diet...well WE don't need to be scientists 'cos we have Hobbs!
So...Here are the rules
All items should be available on the high st, supplements too.
Meat with bone in and skin on ( life is too short to skin meat! )
Animal sources can be mixed
I suggest a total weight of around 5lbs....but this is flexible, bearing in mind most people have limited freezer space.
 
#2 ·
Anyhow, here is a potential "easy" recipe

1000g lamb meat ------------------------------------or any other meat, beef, chicken with skin, duck, rabbit, venison
500g lamb breast (together that is 50% meat)
250g lamb heart (8.3%)
250g lamb kidney (8.3%)
1000g chicken wings with bones and skin (33.3% but remember this also includes meat)
98g ox liver, or 85g chicken liver or 300g lambs liver (you need more lambs or calf liver than ox or chicken liver to get the same amount of Vit A)
17g salmon (for Vit D3)

Supplements
seaweed powder 4.4g (for iodine amongst other things but also helps with metabolism)
brewers yeast 6g (for Vit Bs and other trace elements)
Vit e drops 6 or 50g wheat germ oil (very expensive in this country) for Vit E
Salt 1.4g to substitute for the sodium loss not feeding blood
Water about 1l (this is to substitute for the loss of blood and therefore loss of moisture)

This gives you

96% energy
94% calcium
103% phosphorus
44% iron
100% iodine (seaweed)
100% Vit A
99.6% Vit D3
93% Vit E

So the calcium is lower then the phosphorus but if you added 2gs of eggshell powder to this, the ca/ph ratio would be perfectly balanced.
Wow, Hobbs...that is fantastic....and it is NEARLY easy enough.;)
Without compromising, can we make this easier for Joe Bloggs our new forum member who wants to feed raw? I think he may ask some questions...
Where can I buy seaweed powder?
Holland and Barratt sells kelp is that the same thing?
Fresh salmon or tinned? cooked or raw? smoked ( nah! )
Can I use fish oil instead of the salmon?
Where do I buy eggshell powder on the high st?
Regular table salt, or sea salt, or lo-salt, or Himalayan pink salt? :p
Just to complicate things...how would I adapt the above if I wanted to use chicken thighs as a main meat source?
 
#4 ·
Wow, Hobbs...that is fantastic....and it is NEARLY easy enough.;)
Without compromising, can we make this easier for Joe Bloggs our new forum member who wants to feed raw? I think he may ask some questions...
Where can I buy seaweed powder?
Holland and Barratt sells kelp is that the same thing?
Fresh salmon or tinned? cooked or raw? smoked ( nah! )
Can I use fish oil instead of the salmon?
Where do I buy eggshell powder on the high st?
Regular table salt, or sea salt, or lo-salt, or Himalayan pink salt? :p
Just to complicate things...how would I adapt the above if I wanted to use chicken thighs as a main meat source?
Even easier - hrrummpf :p

Kelp is a seaweed. The seaweed I use is similar to the stuff they sell on zooplus and contains: Jod 755 mg/kg. Don't use any form of seaweed though if you have got a cat with hyperthyroidism. If you have black cats though you will notice them getting darker as the iodine intensifies the pigments,

Salmon. You could be fresh and use it raw but then freeze it with the food you make up in advance. Kills off any bacteria. And no, not smoked and no precooked either.

Salmon oil - no, this is not a substitute for using fresh salmon. Though I forgot that in my recipes. I use about 2 capsules per 1kg of meat for the fatty acids. I add that to the food when I serve though, I don't freeze the oil.

Sadly you cannot buy eggshell powder easily in the UK. You have a hard time even getting calcium carbonate, though that is a great alternative (well they are basically the same). But you can easily make it yourself by keeping the eggshells of the eggs you use back, washing them out, getting rid of the inner membrane, storing them in the fridge and then using a grinder to powder it to a fine,well powder. You can get calcium carbonate off ebay or either from German barf shops. You could start lobying zooplus to start stocking it (their German home site contains a Barf section....)

Regular table salt will do. In the US they use iodine salt to get iodine into their cats. Or, of course, you can use the pink Himalayan salt. I actually do :D Just because I got it really cheap lol

I would also add taurine to the food. Particularly if I were to mince it. About 3g for the above amount.

Will post the chicken thigh recipe in a different post.
 
#7 ·
Now that's easy! ( and cheaper! )
Yes my grinder handles thighs just fine.
But can I check that 50g of wheatgerm oil?
I WANT your grinder :D

What about those 50g wheatgerm oil? It is expensive, I said. But if you have access to some vit e drops (those that don't contain any other things) then you could do 50/50 or 25/75. I get a 250ml bottle for 8 euro, which lasts me for about 10-15kg of meat or 50 daily rations for my two grown boys.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Got a few questions. Most importantly, my cats are now rejecting meals with supplements added. I persuaded them in the beginning by feeding them by hand (which they love for some reason) or adding treats. Failing that, I would simply plonk down the bowls and declare, 'That's your dinner and you ain't getting nothing else!'

But they have never been very impressed with the supplement gravy.

I feed mostly diced meat, then a thigh or wing every fourth meal, give or take. So the supplements must be added to the diced meat and I guess that's just not as easy as adding them to miced meat into which this gravy would presumably mix better. First I sprinkle the powdered supplements over the meat, then I drizzle the oils and taurine water and then, if there's any, drizzle blood on top because it appears to make their meal more appealing. But this doesn't seem to be working anymore and I don't know what to do. I have also tried premixing the gravy in a separate container before adding to their bowls but they don't like that any better and I risk losing some of the tiny measurements of powdered supplements. Should I abandon this complex gravy malarkey and simply try Felini Complete or TC Premix? Not that they would necessarily take to those either.

Right, my other questions refer directly to your recipe. 17g salmon is such a small amount and there's obviously a limit to how many times I can freeze and defrost and refreeze the rest - can I supplement vit D3 from H&B and how much would I need to add?

Having said that, the best product I can find is this one- Holland and Barrett - Fast Acting Liquid Vitamin D3 -which is not promising.

As for seaweed, well, this might sound silly but how would I know if my cat has a thyroid problem and that supplementing it could be potentially dangerous? I ask because I have one rather large cat (7kg) and another whose growth was stunted as a kitten...is it better to err on the side of caution here?

Sorry for my mad rambling... :crazy:
 
#11 ·
Got a few questions. Most importantly, my cats are now rejecting meals with supplements added. I persuaded them in the beginning by feeding them by hand (which they love for some reason) or adding treats. Failing that, I would simply plonk down the bowls and declare, 'That's your dinner and you ain't getting nothing else!'

But they have never been very impressed with the supplement gravy.

I feed mostly diced meat, then a thigh or wing every fourth meal, give or take. So the supplements must be added to the diced meat and I guess that's just not as easy as adding them to miced meat into which this gravy would presumably mix better. First I sprinkle the powdered supplements over the meat, then I drizzle the oils and taurine water and then, if there's any, drizzle blood on top because it appears to make their meal more appealing. But this doesn't seem to be working anymore and I don't know what to do. I have also tried premixing the gravy in a separate container before adding to their bowls but they don't like that any better and I risk losing some of the tiny measurements of powdered supplements. Should I abandon this complex gravy malarkey and simply try Felini Complete or TC Premix? Not that they would necessarily take to those either.

Right, my other questions refer directly to your recipe. 17g salmon is such a small amount and there's obviously a limit to how many times I can freeze and defrost and refreeze the rest - can I supplement vit D3 from H&B and how much would I need to add?

Having said that, the best product I can find is this- Holland and Barrett - Fast Acting Liquid Vitamin D3 -which is not very promising.

As for seaweed, well, this might sound silly but how would I know if my cat has a thyroid problem and that supplementing it could be potentially dangerous? I ask because I have one rather large cat (7kg) and another whose growth was stunted as a kitten...is it better to err on the side of caution here?

Sorry for my mad rambling... :crazy:
Hiya, haven't seen you for a while. ;)

Am I reading it right, that you don't make up the chunks in large batches with the supplements and freeze them in portions but add them to each meal? I wonder whether that is the issue. Could you make up a batch with the supplements, freeze it for a week or two and see whether that makes a difference? (Clutching at straws but hey...)

Also, it could be one particular supplement that they don't like. So you could start from scratch and add them one after the other over time (again, with periods of freezing perhaps).

In the meantime I would just forget about using the supplements. Just feed the meat, offal and your bones every n meal. Perhaps add the taurine (no harm and is tasteless I believe) and every third day add some salmon oil if they eat that.

My cats love the TC Premix, and I use it occasionally. Again, you will need to premix and freeze. It is not a drizzle on sort of supplement.

Re the Vit D3. You can substitute the salmon for 1/2 tablet of Vit 3 500 iu or 1/4 tablet of 1000 iu. Does that help?

Re the iodine, not at all silly. If you are concerned about the thyroid function of one or both of your cats then perhaps do a little more research before using seaweed powder or salt with iodine. Incidentally, I just recently read that excess as well as lack of sufficient iodine in the diet has been associated with feline thyroid disease.

Hope that helps!
 
#12 ·
A bit off topic but was talking to my small animals lecturer today and apparently hyperthyroidism is really rare in slovakia. You are much more likely to find a dog or human with hypo than a cat with hyper apparently because the levels of iodine are generally low here. Low in what I didn't quite get round to asking. However she was yet another of my profs to advocate the feeding of raw food for animals :)
 
#13 ·
Wow, speedy response! Thank you Hobbs :)

Am I reading it right, that you don't make up the chunks in large batches with the supplements and freeze them in portions but add them to each meal? I wonder whether that is the issue. Could you make up a batch with the supplements, freeze it for a week or two and see whether that makes a difference? (Clutching at straws but hey...)

Also, it could be one particular supplement that they don't like. So you could start from scratch and add them one after the other over time (again, with periods of freezing perhaps).

In the meantime I would just forget about using the supplements. Just feed the meat, offal and your bones every n meal. Perhaps add the taurine (no harm and is tasteless I believe) and every third day add some salmon oil if they eat that.
Yep, you got it. I have a tiny freezer compartment (rented property) so it's simply more practical for me to buy packs of diced meat from the supermarket once a week, as opposed to what I imagine to be the more common practice of buying in bulk from a butcher, then dicing or grinding the meat, making supplement gravy, and freezing it all together. I have enough space to freeze small batches of liver, heart and kidney that I've chopped up, plus some thighs or wings, but not much else.

You're probably right to suggest it though because I guess the gravy would get partially absorbed by the chunks of meat when frozen.

What I definitely have done is try different supplements on their own. That's pretty much all I can do at the mo since the gravy is being flatly rejected. They won't touch any powdered supplements or the taurine water -weird I know, but I can only assume that they don't like the puddle of water at the bottom of the bowl- and are finicky about the oils, even fish oils which they used to enjoy. sigh

My cats love the TC Premix, and I use it occasionally. Again, you will need to premix and freeze. It is not a drizzle on sort of supplement.
hmm. What about Felini Complete? is that a premix too?

Re the Vit D3. You can substitute the salmon for 1/2 tablet of Vit 3 500 iu or 1/4 tablet of 1000 iu. Does that help?
Theoretically yes, but unless it comes in capsule or liquid form then I might as well not bother since they won't eat ground tablet.

Re the iodine, not at all silly. If you are concerned about the thyroid function of one or both of your cats then perhaps do a little more research before using seaweed powder or salt with iodine. Incidentally, I just recently read that excess as well as lack of sufficient iodine in the diet has been associated with feline thyroid disease.
Thanks. Better do some reading!
 
#14 ·
I also read ( sorry cannot give the reference ) that cats actually adapt pretty well to either high or low levels of taurine in their food....and that there is a wide degree of variation in prepared food products. It is suggested that our practice of varying the food brands/mixes given to the cat is actually a problem....so although I like to rotate and feed different brands this may be an issue.
 
#15 ·
I also read ( sorry cannot give the reference ) that cats actually adapt pretty well to either high or low levels of taurine in their food....and that there is a wide degree of variation in prepared food products. It is suggested that our practice of varying the food brands/mixes given to the cat is actually a problem....so although I like to rotate and feed different brands this may be an issue.
Oh you tease! Find that reference!
 
#17 ·
Anyhow, here is a potential "easy" recipe

1000g lamb meat ------------------------------------or any other meat, beef, chicken with skin, duck, rabbit, venison
500g lamb breast (together that is 50% meat)
250g lamb heart (8.3%)
250g lamb kidney (8.3%)
1000g chicken wings with bones and skin (33.3% but remember this also includes meat)
98g ox liver, or 85g chicken liver or 300g lambs liver (you need more lambs or calf liver than ox or chicken liver to get the same amount of Vit A)
17g salmon (for Vit D3)

Supplements
seaweed powder 4.4g (for iodine amongst other things but also helps with metabolism)
brewers yeast 6g (for Vit Bs and other trace elements)
Vit e drops 6 or 50g wheat germ oil (very expensive in this country) for Vit E
Salt 1.4g to substitute for the sodium loss not feeding blood
Water about 1l (this is to substitute for the loss of blood and therefore loss of moisture)

This gives you

96% energy
94% calcium
103% phosphorus
44% iron
100% iodine (seaweed)
100% Vit A
99.6% Vit D3
93% Vit E

So the calcium is lower then the phosphorus but if you added 2gs of eggshell powder to this, the ca/ph ratio would be perfectly balanced.

The iron is a little low at 44% but if you managed to get your hands on some pigs lung and substituted 50g of the kidney with lung then that brings it up to good levels. Or get your hands on some fortain. Essentially, cats would be getting this level of iron from the blood of their prey (as well as some organs such as liver) but the meat we use in this cobbled together approach has been hung and drained.

Anyhow, that is what my calculator throws up for a bone-in recipe.

Other people do it differently, perhaps they will post here too. Well, and let's not forget if you go to rawcat they will just shout you down for using supplements in the first place. They have a confidence in their supermarket meat and cobbled-together approach that I don't have. So, I choose to use them.

Each to their own I say. There isn't just one way but this is my wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy :)
OMG - this is 'easy' Hobbs?? My husband would be delighted and think I'd gone all 'gourmet' on him if I served him this for a special dinner...:confused1::lol:
 
#18 ·
Hobbs, I meant to say, I would be interested in seeing a boneless recipe :)

Would you please be able to explain what you're supposed to do with the 'easy Barf' product sold by Lilly's Bar? and have you ever used it? The best translation I can get is still rather confusing, so I don't understand if it's a premix or can be added straight to the bowl, and whether or not it contains sufficient amounts of calcium and vit A. Persuading my cats to accept liver and offal is still a problem.

Also, does anyone else have experience using Felini Complete? is it a premix?

Sorry for being a pain.
 
#19 ·
Oops, forgot to ask, would you agree with the fortain dosage as suggested by Lilly's Bar? they say 1/2 tsp per day for a 5kg cat which sounds like rather a lot. And am I right in thinking that the disparity between the brewers yeast dosage that you are suggesting in your recipe (which would appear to be a little under 0.3g per day) and the massive 1/2 tsp daily dosage suggested by Lilly's Bar is down to the meat sources in your recipe already containing a good quantity of vit B? Just want to make sure because my maths is rubbish.
 
#22 ·
I have all three products here and could send you the equivalent portion of each, if you want to try them first. (Would need to double check that easybarf is still in date)
My apologies, only just noticed your reply. I've placed an order with Lilly's Bar minus easybarf which ought to last about a month, but I appreciate for your offer. I wanted to research all other options since this supplement business has not been going well. I would prefer to continue using each supplement separately, but I might be forced to give this method up! finicky little buggers

Just got my trusted real calculator out and my barf calculator tells me that for a 5kg cat being fed pork you need 1.6g of fortain per day, which is a little more than 1/2 teaspoon (if according to them a level teaspoon is 2.5g)
Well, Bettie weighs 5kg and Johnny 7kg. Don't know how much the fortain dosage would vary between them, or between different meats, but at the moment they are fed mostly chicken and turkey, with some pork (never more than a quarter of their overall diet). Rabbit, lamb and beef only occassionally because Bettie isn't keen. Guess I'll use 1.6g for Bettie and a little more for Johnny.

1/2 teaspoon of brewer's yeast strikes me as a little much. I guess the thinking is that you cannot overdose on a vit b complex but .... Just had a quick google and there are others who recommend an even higher daily dose: The Tree House Humane Society recommends a dose of 1 tsp. of brewer's yeast.

To be fair, I sprinkle some additional brewer's yeast on my cat's food; just because the like it.
Since neither cat is keen on brewers yeast, I'll just add as much as they will accept. Thank you :)

btw, you mentioned earlier in this thread that your recipe would require more lamb liver than ox or chicken... if I were able to get hold of heart from another animal, such as pig or rabbit, then how would it compare? What I mean to say is, is there much variation or is it only lamb liver that's significantly lower in vit A? Perhaps I'm not looking properly but I can't find this information anywhere.
 
#23 ·
Hi,

I haven't been on the forum for some time and have just come across this raw recipe -it looks great. I am currently raw feeding but I would like to try this but would like to ask a couple of questions. (which i hope arent too sill!)

a couple of months back, my cat had problems with gingivitis. I put her on Plaque Off and it has really worked. As the Plaque off has seaweed and iodine would it make sense to leave out the kelp supplement and just continue adding the plaque off as usual?

My cat loves rabbit so I often buy the wild rabbit chunks as well as the offal pack from Woldsway. Could i substiute 1000g of rabbit for the lamb with the rabbit chunks and use some of the offal from Woldsway offal pack? Or do I get some in bone rabbit?

She also loves raw eggs so I give her half a beat up egg a couple of times per week. Would doing this throw the nutritional value of this recipe off?

Can anyone suggest a suitable grinder that is reaonably priced that will grind bone?

Thanks for all your help.
 
#24 ·
Hi,

I haven't been on the forum for some time and have just come across this raw recipe -it looks great. I am currently raw feeding but I would like to try this but would like to ask a couple of questions. (which i hope arent too sill!)

a couple of months back, my cat had problems with gingivitis. I put her on Plaque Off and it has really worked. As the Plaque off has seaweed and iodine would it make sense to leave out the kelp supplement and just continue adding the plaque off as usual?

My cat loves rabbit so I often buy the wild rabbit chunks as well as the offal pack from Woldsway. Could i substiute 1000g of rabbit for the lamb with the rabbit chunks and use some of the offal from Woldsway offal pack? Or do I get some in bone rabbit?

She also loves raw eggs so I give her half a beat up egg a couple of times per week. Would doing this throw the nutritional value of this recipe off?

Can anyone suggest a suitable grinder that is reaonably priced that will grind bone?

Thanks for all your help.
Hiya and welcome back peecee! TBH, I would just get their rabbit chunks with bone in and offal. The only thing I would be inclined to add would be some more heart. ;)
 
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