UK Pet Forums Forum banner

Dirty protests

3K views 27 replies 16 participants last post by  lorilu 
#1 ·
Hi all

So I’m wondering if anyone on here can offer me some advice. We have a puppy who is 4 months old. It took us a while to get him potty trained, but once he was able to go for walks, it sort of just clicked. The odd thing is that he very really does anything on walks, usually saves it until he gets home and then goes in the garden. He’s been perfect for weeks up until the last few days it’s as if he does it on purpose. He sleeps in the kitchen in his cage of a night and if he goes through the night, it’s always on the pad. Well the past few days, he keeps doing it whenever he is locked away in the kitchen, usually when we’re eating (as he is snatches food off your plate) or when we are cleaning up. But it’s been every time without fail. We started leaving the back door open whilst we do those things, but he still decided to do it all over the kitchen floor instead. When the door is open and he has free reign of the living room, he’s perfectly fine and is good as gold. He even sits by the back door an cries til we let him out for a wee normally. My partners at her whits end with him and I don’t know what to do.

Today we tried leaving the door open while we ate to see what he would do, he didn’t jump up at as while we ate so I was made up with him but then the minute I turned my back he peed on the couch, so then I locked him in the kitchen and he poo’d. Really dunno what to do, it’s like I give him the benefit of the doubt, he’ll prove himself in other aspects but then take a step back in others. Like I said, this is really odd behaviour for him as he’s been brilliant for weeks, up until the last few days.
 
See less See more
#3 ·
He’s going out for 30-45 3 times a day. The lead is only short as I don’t trust other dogs in the park. He gets quite scared when other dogs come up close and people mostly walk with them off the lead so atleast when he’s close I can pick him up. He’s peed on walks roughly 5 times, poo’d once. As I said he normally comes home an goes straight out to the garden to do his business.

Just trying to work out why he’s started going inside whenever we lock him away.
Behavioural issues or something else?

Any suggestions on what I could try with him?
 
#5 ·
He's going out for 30-45 3 times a day
For a puppy of 4 months, that really is far too much.

I don't believe his not pooping on walks has any real reason. He feels more comfortable in familiar surroundings.

I'm sure you will find he'll become more relaxed as he grows.
 
#4 ·
It seems to me that, when you shut him in another room whilst you eat, he's becoming stressed/anxious, and this is why he poops.

I believe it would be preferable to train him to be calm around you whilst you're eating.

As he is normally clean in his habits, then it is always advisable to look at why he has this change in behaviour.

My dogs often don't poop on walks, but will wait to go on my garden. That's not a big deal.
 
G
#6 ·
Firstly, he's not doing it on purpose. Dogs don't think like that.

I agree with the suggestion of anxiety above. Also agree that it's unusual that he doesn't want to toilet on his walks, that's very common, especially with puppies. It's usually a combination of being so overwhelmed with everything that they forget to toilet, and they don't feel comfortable enough.

Also, it's not unusual for dogs to regress with toilet training around this age - we get many posts similar to yours.

You say you use puppy pads - that may well be not helping your case. To his mind, he's allowed to toilet in the kitchen - he doesn't realise that he's only allowed to toilet in the kitchen at night/on his pad. It's also likely that he hasn't made the distinction between inside and outside, so leaving the door open won't help.

He's still VERY young, and many dogs aren't toilet trained fully by 4 months. Go back to basics - TAKE him outside on a regular schedule, praise outside toileting like he's the most amazing dog in the world, clean up accidents without any fuss, wake up during the night to let him out so he doesn't have to toilet in the kitchen.
 
#7 ·
I’ll try removing the pad from tonight then and see how he goes. What would you suggest we do during meal times/cleaning etc when we have to lock him away? Reason I don’t like him about when we’re eating is that he snatches food literally off your plate, and we have 3 young children in the house.

Would locking him in his cage/putting him in the garden help d’you think? As for the anxiety mentioned, I should point out that he also doesn’t do anything when we are out of the house an he’s locked in the kitchen. Its like if he knows that we’re there, he will play up when locked away. If he knows we’re not there he seems to be fine.

Thanks for the replies everyone
 
#8 ·
I'll try removing the pad from tonight then and see how he goes. What would you suggest we do during meal times/cleaning etc when we have to lock him away? Reason I don't like him about when we're eating is that he snatches food literally off your plate, and we have 3 young children in the house.

Would locking him in his cage/putting him in the garden help d'you think? As for the anxiety mentioned, I should point out that he also doesn't do anything when we are out of the house an he's locked in the kitchen. Its like if he knows that we're there, he will play up when locked away. If he knows we're not there he seems to be fine.

Thanks for the replies everyone
Do you sit at a table to eat? If not this coud be the time to start - less temptation for him than plates at nose height.
Also maybe give him a tasty chew to keep him busy while you eat,or a Kong ,frozen with some wet food in it.
 
#10 ·
How do you react to his accidents?

If you get cross, that could make him not want to toilet in front of you.

I’d take him for a quick trip round the block to allow him to empty before those trigger times too.

At 4 months his toilet training will still need reinforcing and leaving the door open can interfere with that.

Continue to practice the toileting routine that fits with your own routine.
 
#13 ·
How do you react to his accidents?

If you get cross, that could make him not want to toilet in front of you.

I'd take him for a quick trip round the block to allow him to empty before those trigger times too.

At 4 months his toilet training will still need reinforcing and leaving the door open can interfere with that.

Continue to practice the toileting routine that fits with your own routine.
He definitely has no problem going in front of me as I'm always in the garden with him.

Train him to lie on a mat, with a chew. Start training when it's not mealtime, or when he settles anyway (maybe after exercise) so that he can get it right.

I agree with everybody that it's stress causing the inappropriate poops; puppies don't do things just to 'get back at us' if they can't get their own way.

Dogs being alone when we're out is very different to them being shut away from us when we're there; I can't remember if you said you close the door between you but, if so, maybe a baby gate so he can still see you and feel part of things.

As for the no poops outside issue; I so wish my dog would poop in the garden. You've got to pick it up wherever you are so it's no big deal.
We use a baby gate so he can see us, but what he does is either go round the corner by the fridge (normally for poo's) for wee's he'll just do it wherever he is.

As for people saying they don't do things to get back at us. He is a bit lazy and doesn't like going for a walk, he cries the whole time he's out no matter how many times you stop to calm him down. He's also started to pretend to limp so you pick him up. I know he's pretending cause he'll stop and look at you with his big puppy dog eyes, if I don't pick him up an carry on walking, he'll start limping on a different leg haha.

Surely if him peeing when he's locked away was down to being anxious then surely he'd do it at night as well? Which he doesn't
 
#12 ·
Train him to lie on a mat, with a chew. Start training when it’s not mealtime, or when he settles anyway (maybe after exercise) so that he can get it right.

I agree with everybody that it’s stress causing the inappropriate poops; puppies don’t do things just to ‘get back at us’ if they can’t get their own way.

Dogs being alone when we’re out is very different to them being shut away from us when we’re there; I can’t remember if you said you close the door between you but, if so, maybe a baby gate so he can still see you and feel part of things.

As for the no poops outside issue; I so wish my dog would poop in the garden. You’ve got to pick it up wherever you are so it’s no big deal.
 
#20 ·
He's a Chihuahua crossed with a Jack Russell.
When I said above that he's out for 30-45 mins, he's not walking that whole time. We always stop at the bench for 10 or so minutes while I give him some treats, also take water as well and it's soft ground (grass) that he's walking on. The park is literally a 2 minute walk away so I wouldn't say that he's walking too much. Also the thing with the limp, the only time he does it is when we first leave the house, he never does it when we've been out for a bit, and never around the house or garden. I also factor in that ever since we got him, I used to have to carry him around the corner for him to start walking, now I don't carry him at all but instead he does the limp. Again, he only does this when we first leave the house which is why I draw it up to pretending.

I also think the crying is likely because he's dying to go the toilet but won't do it whilst we're out. There has been a few times when he has actually gone outside, he stops crying immediately.



As stated above, we have young children who aren't so quick as to guard their food when he's around. We tried yesterday and today and he's not been too bad. Last night he sat by my feet as we ate, today he sat in his bed in the living room but the baby calls his name and throws food from her high chair for him so you can imagine how that's going to go lol.
 
#16 ·
I really don’t think he’s pretending to limp or doing things as a protest. As others said possibly the anxiety of being shut out I can leave my dogs home alone for hours but if I shut them out of a room they get upset (FOMO)

My youngest dog never used to go to the toilets on walks. Now he will only poop on walks. As others have said 45 minutes is to long. What breed is he ?

I used to give a long at my dinner time to stop issues young pups don’t have a great deal of impulse control it comes with time and training.
 
#17 ·
Good advice above ref the toileting.
However, I’d just like to reiterate you are exercising him too much (which might also explain the limping you mention.) Most importantly, his skeleton is not mature yet and his ‘growth plates’ have not joined. You can Google ‘puppy growth plates’ to learn more, but until he’s mature (12 to 15 months, approx, depending on the breed) the rule of thumb is five minutes per month of age up to twice per day. So, for your pup he should be getting (maximum) about 20 minutes twice per day of walking (playing in the garden, etc, is fine). Your 120 minutes (or thereabouts) per day at his age is far too much. If you overdo it you can set him up for medical problems later in life.
 
#18 ·
This is an X-ray taken of a very young puppy. You can see how the bones are not meeting and the joints have not formed properly. Overexercising puppies and allowing them to jump on and off things or going up and down stairs can easily damage the unformed joints.
White Leg Black Jaw Organism


The rule of thumb is to only walk your puppy for 5 minutes per month of age twice a day. This refers to on lead walking on a hard surface at a fixed pace and doesn't include playing in the garden where the puppy can lie down and rest if needs be. Your puppy should only be going out for a 20 minute walk
 
#19 ·
I would get a vet check regarding the limping. It may be that he has an intermittent limp on both front legs.

I would very much doubt that a puppy has the logic needed to equate limping with being picked up, although it may be a learned ‘trick’ by now.

Crying on a walk isn’t normal behaviour and needs investigating. If there is no physical reason then it’s a behavioural issue and you need to find the root cause so that you can work on it.

I’m also, from your posts, getting vibes that you’re attributing human thought processes, actions and values to your pup’s behaviours and this isn’t going to help. If you could find a good book about how dogs think and learn then I’m sure you’d find it useful going forward.

Have any PF members got recommendations for up to date, in print?.
 
#25 ·
  • Like
Reactions: Linda Weasel
#21 ·
Sorry if you've said this and I missed it, but I would also try and make sure he learns that he doesn't get food off your plates. So no feeding him scraps of your dinner, etc. Our pup always used to jump and want our food, but he has learnt that he never gets it so doesnt try (unless we leave it unattended, then it's obviously fair game :rolleyes:) If we do want to give him kitchen scraps, he doesn't see them come from our plates and they go in his bowl.
 
#22 · (Edited)
You've got three problems here.

Firstly, the limping. As Linda Weasel has said, you really should get him checked over by a vet to ensure there isn't any damage. And make sure he really isn't walked too much - at four months he should be walking on "hard" surfaces for no more than a maximum of 20 minutes twice a day. And "hard" doesn't just mean asphalt paths or pavements - in the current warm spell the earth round here is rock-hard.

Secondly, toileting. Ditch the pads. I think you may need to start over with toilet training. If he has an accident inside. just clear it up - don't react at all. If you raise your voice, or show any annoyance at all, his little doggy brain won't think "Widdling/pooing inside is wrong - I must only do that outside": he's going to think you're angry because he's widdled in the first place. And if he tries not to, he won't be able to hold on, so he'll find a nice little place to go so that - in his little mind - you won't know and won't be angry. And then you've got real problems. Similarly, don't laugh or smile as you clean it up - because that's exciting, and he'll think that means he's clever and will do it again for more praise. And again, and again... Just clear it up without any emotion and without saying a word.

Go back to basics. Pop him outside at regular intervals, and when he does perform, praise him and stuff him full of treats. It won't take him long to make the connection.

Finally, you've got to stop him stealing from plates. Seriously - if he starts to think he can get away with this and starts to get snappy if he doesn't get what he wants, then disaster may lie ahead, particularly with a baby in the house. Work on teaching him commands like "Lie down", "wait" and "leave it", and be consistent. Teach everyone else in the house not to give him food from their plates (best of luck with that with the baby!). In any case, limit the amount of "human" food he gets - it isn't always good for dogs, and some can be fatal (another reason to teach the children not to throw food for him).

If he refuses to eat unless he has "table-leavings" first, the answer's simple. If he won't eat his meal, then he doesn't get any scraps at all. He won't starve himself.
 
#23 ·
Clip a lead on him, let it trail, tell him to lie down and put your foot on the lead, he physically can't snatch off plates.... and teach your children that they can't call the pup and throw food

In so far a toileting inside this pup is only 4 months old, ONLY just physically capable of holding his bowels/bladder and you have trained using puppy pads, so you have trained this pup to toilet inside and once you do that you are telling the pup that is what you want, once they start to grow up the pup then decides where in the house inside it wants to toilet.... so you have created this issue... my guess is ( from what you say) you/your partner are making a huge fuss about 'finding' poo/pee and that will just make him anxious and will ensure he will do exactly the same thing again, remember YOU told him it was OK to toilet inside, now you don't want hom to do that.........

Pups and anxious dogs do not toilet on walks, they toilet in their own garden or in their own house ( if that is what you train) where they feel safer.
 
#24 ·
Might be a good time to start teaching the leave command over food. Start by having a treat in your hand but preventing him from getting it until you give permission, you may need help initially with someone holding back. Use the command ‘wait’ and your hand up in a stop shape so he has a visual command as well as voice. He won’t know what either mean so you will need to practice this. Then say ‘fetch’ and let him have the treat. When he’s learnt to wait without being held then out the treat on the floor and tell him to wait and then fetch. Eventually you want to be able to drop the treat on the floor and him wait until you give permission to fetch. This will take time and a lot of repartition. The idea is that when the baby throws some food on the floor you can say wait and go and pick up the item and give him a treat at his bed rather then the thrown food.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LinznMilly
#27 ·
It could be he feels anxious on walks and unsafe to toilet.

The whining could be anxiety too.

How does he respond to other dogs, strangers, noises outside?

Little dogs often get overwhelmed.

Limping at the start of a walk could be down to stiffness which eases after some walking, but the cause of that needs identifying.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top