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Bullying dogs

2K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  CheddarS 
#1 ·
I came across this on Facebook today and thought it well worth a read. Shame it's targeting Labs specifically in the title as I think it'll make most people think it's just Labs it applies to when that's not the case at all.

http://www.thelabradorsite.com/bullying-dog/
 
#3 ·
I think the play frustration reflects what I seem to notice locally.
Because most dogs greet so freely, most dogs don't as a result bother to greet other dogs and are very unlikely to go out of their way to do so.
There are so many dogs to greet on the beach for example that more than not they ignore and if anything it is a sniff and move on
 
#4 ·
Hmm I think many of us, including the great John Rogerson would seriously dispute the assertion that Single dog households are more likely to produce bullying dogs, and in fact say that it is more likely that bully dogs come from multi dog households as they often get a lot of practise at home!

I also would challenge "over friendly" is it possible to be too friendly?

I don't think so.

I think it is possible to have a dog with no social skills, no recall and for owners to have magnetised their pets to other dogs, I come across these all the time!
 
G
#7 ·
Hmm I think many of us, including the great John Rogerson would seriously dispute the assertion that Single dog households are more likely to produce bullying dogs, and in fact say that it is more likely that bully dogs come from multi dog households as they often get a lot of practise at home!

I also would challenge "over friendly" is it possible to be too friendly?

I don't think so.

I think it is possible to have a dog with no social skills, no recall and for owners to have magnetised their pets to other dogs, I come across these all the time!
I'm sure people who are very adept at raising puppies can manage to do so without a stable adult in the home to help, I however, am not that good. I have always had the help of a stable adult dog to help raise puppies, and I am very thankful for their help!
 
#6 ·
This is Dylan....

As a result Dylan is socialised in a controlled manner.... Ie owner aware its very much lets play if he is to be let off with a stranger. Dylan isn't really off the lead much.

He does understand some ques though. And doesn't pursue if told to go away either by the dog or myself.

Don't allow Dylan to just barge upto unknown dogs. Unless its its @adamantis and her hounds
 
#9 ·
I am not saying that all dogs which are bullies come from multi dog households, far from it.

However, there are considerations to be made whether you own a single dog or more.

A lot depends on the skills, knowledge, ability, training and experience of the owner(s)

IME those who have insufficient of the above are often owners of such dogs, irrespective of how many dogs they own.

Many people also cannot identify if their dogs are bullying or being bullied by other household members let alone when they get outside and meet strangers dogs.
 
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#10 ·
Many people also cannot identify if their dogs are bullying or being bullied by other household members let alone when they get outside and meet strangers dogs.
Nor might they be able to identify if their dogs at home are stable, offering appropriate corrections to rude behavior or like you say bullying or worse. As evidenced by the number of people who say their dogs at home are "playing" when they're clearly not!
 
#11 ·
I think there is also a misconception over the term 'socialise'.... it has become a by word for I have to let my dog meet and play with as many dogs as possible. Whatever their age. And I suppose this may be more prevalent in single dog households where owners believe their dog may be 'missing out'. I have only ever had mullti-packs and non of my dogs are that interested in playing with unknown dogs.

Socialisation (or more specifically learning social skills) is vitally important to puppies ....but as the article says after 4/5 months of age the 'socialisation' approach should change drastically and be replaced by handler focus.

J
 
#15 ·
I think there is also a misconception over the term 'socialise'.... it has become a by word for I have to let my dog meet and play with as many dogs as possible. Whatever their age. And I suppose this may be more prevalent in single dog households where owners believe their dog may be 'missing out'. I have only ever had mullti-packs and non of my dogs are that interested in playing with unknown dogs.

Socialisation (or more specifically learning social skills) is vitally important to puppies ....but as the article says after 4/5 months of age the 'socialisation' approach should change drastically and be replaced by handler focus.J
I've always had my puppies in two's and sometimes three's. Always different breeds but with only a matter of a few weeks difference in their ages. I monitor their playing with each other from day one and the first signs of play getting OTT all play is halted, if only for a few minutes.

Georgina's not a bully, but I think because her eyesight was so poor when she was a puppy she sometimes misjudges distances when she's playing with Gwylim and tends to bulldoze into him, but she knows when I tell her "gently" she has to stop whatever she's doing. Other than that.and playing with Gwylim who's often the instigator and gives as good as he gets, she has no interest in playing with other dogs, she'd rather stand on the sidelines and watch.

Gwylim was nearly 9 months old when he came to live with us, and already had good social skills as he'd lived with his breeder and 11 slightly older Schnauzers plus his parents, and other members of his extended family. He's brilliant at reading other dogs body language and Georgina's good at reading his. If Gwylim warns a dog he's not comfortable in its presence, Georgina will immediately step in and stand sideways in front of him to stop any possible confrontation. So far whenever its happened the other dog has taken the hint!
 
#12 ·
Interesting. Dexter was definitely your classic obnoxious Labrador. I think a big part of is general breed perception and I dare say I was guilty of this at the time - he's 'just' a Labrador (or other typically non threatening but often obnoxious breed) so of course he's friendly so what harm can he do? no person or dog could really be scared of a stereotypically friendly breed, right? it's like you have a fallback with this sort of dog when they are obnoxious, you can throw that classic "he's so friendly!" line and really believe it, whereas you have far less leeway with 'scary' dogs....

Perhaps psychologically people can make less of an effort with non scary friendly breeds when it comes to reining them in.
 
#13 ·
I don't think either of mine were socialised as puppies, but most definitely not Lola. She has absolutely no idea about dog body language, so I have been training her, as best I can, that when Dex isn't looking happy, she must come away and lie down (for some reason she thinks that Dex being agitated is an open invitation to play. Never goes well). Dex will also shield her when they are around other dogs, and I have seen him body block her as he clearly knows when she can't handle things.

Dex has definitely come along so much since I joined this forum and just yesterday I got both of them to ignore 3 of the 4 dogs that we came across. The last one was a young springer who came hurtling down the hill, straight at us, so they didn't really have much choice to ignore it. I was so proud of them!

As much as I wish they had been socialised when they were younger, it's not impossible to change their behaviour, although it's b***** hard work sometimes
 
#16 ·
awww, kinda mean to pick on Labradors! I do really hate the bullies though. Especially those accompanied by oblivious owners who think that their dog is super friendly coz it will run up to any dog and want to play, even the nasty mean dogs who try and snap at them rather then wrestle.:rolleyes:
Ive witnessed my lot throw out every level of appeasement/**** off! signals before from lip licking and turning away to snapping and barking and it always annoys me when they get scared. :(
 
#18 ·
awww, kinda mean to pick on Labradors!
I do agree (though I think it generally applies to any dog who approaches like a whirlwind and doesn't take no for an answer, or whose owner has to call out that timeless phase 'It's ok, he's friendly' :D )

I will say though, I have Labs. And they are not play junkies at all. And I have never had to call out that phrase lol

J
 
#17 ·
I met one yesterday. Luckily for the dog my oldest one didn't respond and was small as well. The owners sat there and did nothing whilst I kept blocking him and telling it to go away. The dog then decided to chase a small child instead. They told him not to run and that the barking was nothing to worry about. He ended up running to his mum in tears.
 
G
#19 ·
Kenzie went through a phase of being a bit of a bully with other small dogs when she was around 2-3 years old, not helped by where we walked. I broke it by being vigilant about watching for when she might have the opportunity to bully, as well as doing lots of focus and control training. Now she is pretty much the opposite of a bully!
 
#20 ·
Interesting. Dexter was definitely your classic obnoxious Labrador. I think a big part of is general breed perception and I dare say I was guilty of this at the time - he's 'just' a Labrador (or other typically non threatening but often obnoxious breed) so of course he's friendly so what harm can he do? no person or dog could really be scared of a stereotypically friendly breed, right? it's like you have a fallback with this sort of dog when they are obnoxious, you can throw that classic "he's so friendly!" line and really believe it, whereas you have far less leeway with 'scary' dogs....

Perhaps psychologically people can make less of an effort with non scary friendly breeds when it comes to reining them in.
Yep, those of us with breeds about which people often perceive differently to Labs are often a lot more circumspect as there is a sort of mini BSL amongst other owner which, when faced with say a Rottweiler and a Lab displaying the same behaviours, results in differing interpretations and often consequences. ;)

Most people associate Labradors with Guide Dogs whilst if you have a GSD well they are police dogs etc etc
 
#21 ·
I like that it puts it into terms the average owner can understand instead of getting hung up on technical terms or science or just being a rant about how dogs like this should be kept on lead like so many do. Shame it targets Labs specifically but then it's posted on a Lab site I suppose.

Labs and doodles are definitely the worst for it round here. It's only a few weeks ago I had an off lead labradoodle harassing on lead Spen and the owner had the nerve to say "oh you've got your hands full there!" :rolleyes: Where we generally walk dogs approach as we pass on the path, have a sniff and move on for the most part, there's no real play between strange dogs. When we do get hassle it's almost always either a Lab, a doodle or a GSD.
 
#25 ·
@rona OIC .
Pip hates these types of dogs , also the ones that want to be loved , they are submissive but he rahs at them , they run away and come back for more .
Sometimes it seems they get into situations and dont know how to extract themselves , Pip will be tense and still ,the love me dog will be standing near him but looking away and yawning and both seem stuck . Eventually pip will walk away and then they follow him . :rolleyes:
 
#27 ·
@labradrk yes definitely rude ! I'm not sure if the dog is consciously bullying but as I said I haven't read the whole article.
Libby chi is reactive ( she and pip have been attacked by larger dogs several times ) She will run from an assertive dog but if say, an appeasive goldie or springer approaches she will bark and if they don't leave she will grab their back legs even if they lay down , I would say that is bullying .
She was brought up in a gang of 8 Chi's and think that explains a lot of her reactive behaviour.
 
#28 ·
See I wouldn't call that bullying but fear, it doesn't matter what the other dog is doing, she wants it out of her space and she's rehearsing a behaviour that's probably worked for her to remove the offender.

I agree with 'really friendly' dogs its probably not concious bullying. I think a lot of it falls back on early habituation and socialisation with other dogs. 'Friendly' breeds like Labs tend to gravitate towards other dogs anyway, so the well meaning owner actively seeks out other dogs for Fido to play with because Fido just loves it. Rather than a balanced approach of allowing some interaction and working on self control in others, it's almost easier to make every walk into a play time fun fest with other dogs because "he loves it" and "it tires him out" because "he's not interested in me at all on walks (I wonder why!?!") so it's just easier".
 
#34 ·
I'm not sure dogs consciously bully in the way humans do. Although I've certainly seen dogs who seem to get a kick out of pushing other dogs around and intimidating them. Spencer included when it comes to some situations. Dogs do what they find fun imo. But that doesn't make it acceptable for mine to rush up to another dog, body slam it, trample it, hump it, body slam it some more, chase it, catch it, body slam it. He's having a blast! The other poor dog on the other hand is frightened and upset by his behaviour. And this is the sort of behaviour he displays in a static group setting if i'm not really on the ball with him. On a walk he's a different dog.
 
#38 ·
I don't encourage my boy to socialise but also don't stop him. If he is off lead and the other dog is then the choice is his. He loves small dogs but hates dogs in his face and also has a long memory. Our issue is with black labs and GR who stare up to him or worse hump him (if I am not by him) and he grounds them...TBH I can totally understand, but he is seen as the "bad" dog. I generally now avoid said breeds just in case...
 
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