Show me research to support this?

They are well ventalated and have NO health problems! Am not saying they will always be in there and of course I will change their enclosure as they grow!

This is silly this no to viv's! It just makes people nervous about saying what there enclouses are and then they won't ask for help!

Viv's are fine as long as they have adquate ventalation and is approirate for your tort! This is how I keep mine and they are fine.

Where's the research! Yes viv can be bad if they aren't managed well, but if they are well ventalated and big enough for your tort, then what's the problem!

You show me the evidence that your torts are 100% healthy.... You can't see what is going on inside them. They don't live in vivs in the wild, they live in the open. The Tortoise Trust has done years of research into the correct care of tortoises, may be you should ask Andy Highfield to show you his research, I'm sure he would be happy to point you in the right direction.

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Galaxybears Newfoundlands

i'll get a vet report shall I? I do the upmost to do everything I can for my torts and to be honest you and other people who are anti viv's makes people feel awful! When really a well set up viv can be no real different to a table! Am not here to say which is wrong or right am just trying to give another opinion. Different research show's different things dependant on the way the researcher wants it to go!

Am just trying to help someone, I don't feel its wrong the way I keep my torts and you can't see the inside of your tort can you?? So how do you know what your doing is right all we can do is try are best is it not?

many vets still give out wrong ifo on tortoise care. dont take our word for it, look at the tortoise trust and the worlds tortoise groups. they will tell u the same thing. they have the evidence if u care to look for it.

just want to add that many years ago it wasn't known smoking kills people. why? coz we couldn't see what was going on inside. the point im making is just coz u cant see damage that's dont to the respiratory system shouldn't let us ignore it.

many vets still give out wrong info on tort care. get advice from the experts, the worlds tort groups, the tortoise trust etc , these have seen the result of incorrect care in older torts whom im sure "look" ok when they were 10yrs old but now they@re 40yrs old are suffering from mismanagement in the past.

The Tortoise trust, British Chelonian group the world Chelonian group have all spent years researching the use of viv's and all have come to the conclusion only very experienced viv users should even attempt to raise a tortoise in a viv.

Viv's don't circulate the air evenly enough, even with vents and fans. Tortoises need much air circulation to prevent respiratory conditions such as RNS and Herpes which are difficult to treat, can cause perminant lung damage or even death.

They don't allow a big enough temperature gradient, to allow the tortoise to thermoregulate. Temperatures need to vary greatly hot end to cold end.

Viv's aren't designed for tortoises so don't come in big enough sizes for a tortoise to be healthy and happy.

Also heat mats can and do burn Tortoises terribly

Tables are cheap to make (under £15) for a decent one and can be as big or as small as you want and do keep the temperatures warm enough for tortoises.

This is what the tortoise trust say about the use of viv's ( the link is aimed at people looking for tortoise indoor accomodation, if you would like a more specific report, email Andy Highfield at the TT, I guarantee you he will be more than happy to give you his many years of research reguarding the use of viv's
Tortoise Trust Web - Indoor Housing & Vivarium Design

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Thanks
Lea

good post... vivs are just cruel.

firstly can i ask what tortoise you have?
i choose tables every time even for my redfoots I think the reason why vivs are bad is because you can't get a good temperature variation in them. Because they are so enclosed, the temperature tends to be pretty much the same throughout the viv, whereas torts typically (depending on the species) need about 90 degrees at one end and 70 degrees at the other end. This enables the tort to select which temperature he would like to be at at any time. im not as experienced as many tort keepers but i do do lots of reasearch and learning all the time , vivs are a deffinate no for most species of torts

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2 kittens,4 dogs,8 tortoises.6turtles,bearded dragon,2ferrets and husbands racing pigeons