Stud dogs ?

Discussion in 'Dog Breeding' started by brackenhwv, Sep 24, 2012.


  1. brackenhwv

    brackenhwv PetForums Senior

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    I am hoping any of the breeders on here can help with my question, which is, How do you cope with 2 or more entire males ? Without going in to too much detail at the moment , I have a 17mth ESS male who is unneutered at this point as vet won't do him as he is very submissive and is concerned he may develop fear aggression. I would like to get a male wired vizsla pup, who would be show quality and if was good enough I would maybe eventually breed with him, so wouldn't look to castrate early.I have 2 female HWV on 2+ yrs and 3 mth pup. I don't have kennels as my dogs live in the house. What kind of problems do you face and how do get round them ? I don't want to be in a situ further down the line with dogs fighting over bitches etc or rehome my ESS. Hope you lot can help !
     
  2. babycham2002

    babycham2002 PetForums VIP

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    so you're bitches would be entire too?


    I have three entire males and a now spayed bitch, as well as having entire bitchs and dogs as fosters.

    I had some quite serious fights between my boys when Willow was in season, blood and everything. They really meant it and they took months to make up with each other.

    So you basically have to be prepared to be able to keep all the dogs seperate somehow, which of course is difficult when they all either want to be with the in season bitch and then secondly with you.

    It can be done, we done it for several seasons before Willow was mature enough to spay.

    The other thing that has to be taken into consideration with show dogs is the boys will quite often stop eating, Percy could lose 15% of his bodyweight each season.

    So when one of our fosters came into season just before crufts it was fortunate that another foster home could have her for us
     
  3. lozzibear

    lozzibear PetForums VIP

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    I've not been in that position, but I would imagine it would depend on the males. I know a dog who goes crazy when a bitch is in season, and I do think he would probably fight over a bitch. However, I know some entire dogs who aren't bothered in slightest. Not sure how different they would be though if they were living in the house with the bitch (if entire) though.

    Why would you rehome your ESS?
     
  4. brackenhwv

    brackenhwv PetForums Senior

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    well if it got so bad fighting wise it may come to that, I'm not wanting to rehome him, just playing out one of many scenarios that are going on in my head just now !
     
  5. I love springers

    I love springers PetForums Senior

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    i'm sorry but that scenario would not even enter my head......So you are prepared to bring another dog into the house knowing full well that the spaniel has some issues and if it doesn't work out just rehome the spaniel.....It's not that easy..There are so many dogs without issues in kennels..Maybe you should get the spaniel issues sorted out first and then maybe think of adding another to the pack..
     
  6. chichi

    chichi Banned

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    I would imagine there would be bad feeling between two entire males with an in season bitch around. Two entire males is not something I would consider personally. When my girls are in season my stud loses weight dramatically and is a totally different character....quite understandably...the sole aim is to get to the bitch......naturally. The only thing I could suggest is that when you have a bitch in season....you send your ESS to stay with family for a few weeks....if that isnt possible then I would think twice personally.
     
  7. babycham2002

    babycham2002 PetForums VIP

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    I think what lozzibear meant was why would you rehome the springer when effectively he was there first
     
  8. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    A lot will depend on the dogs characters.

    I have two entire males and 4 entire females - one of the males has been used, the other hasn't.

    The one that has is so laid back he is almost horizontal - both of them get a bit "stressy" when the girls are spot on for mating, but aside from that, we've certainly never had any male on male aggression.

    I probably get more hassle from my girls when one or more of them is in season as they spend half their lives humping each other senseless :rolleyes:

    I am keen to move more down the male route, although first need to bring in another female - so it is likely I will have my elder females neutered to make life for the boys a little easier - but in terms of aggression between them - never witnessed any, they are 4 and 2 - the girls range from 3 to 10 years old.

    ETA - probably the closest we've come to "frustrated aggression" is when my oldest comes into season (before she is ready for mating) and "tells them off" when she shoves her rear end in their faces - they have a sniff and walk off :rolleyes:

    If all your dogs do live indoors, crates and doors are very useful - and it can require a fair bit of rotation when the girls are ready for mating - but when they aren't - they just all live happily side by side - and you need to be sure that everyone else in the household is as clear on the regime you set in place to minimise the risk of any accidents happening.
     
    #8 swarthy, Sep 25, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  9. brackenhwv

    brackenhwv PetForums Senior

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    Thanks for the replies especially Swarthy.
    Ilovespringers, my spaniel doesn't have any issues , he has lived very tolerantly with another male, who was a foster and who gave him a very hard time and he didn't retaliate, as I said he is submissive and I had planned to castrate him but can't at this time due to vets advice. I asked the question to find out others experience as none of my bitches were in season when the dog was here. You have no right to jump down someones throat unless you know the whole story , which you don't.
     
  10. Starlite

    Starlite PetForums VIP

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    I have never had more than one male but know a few people who have and they live in babygate central lol!

    All the dogs are rotated room/room and also in/out just in case :) For us it's not feasable as we have a toddler so it will be many years before we consider 2 males as its so much work x
     
  11. kodakkuki

    kodakkuki PetForums VIP

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    I your male is so submissive he may become fear aggressive is IMO a little more than normal submissive behaviour- and not many rescues would rehome un-neutered ; I think that's what ilovespringers was getting at... Personall though, if a new pup was to cause one of my older dogs problems, it would be the up that would have to go, no matter the quality.
    But, everyone is different, and every dog is different; I don't think anyone could predict how they will get on as the pup matures...
     
  12. brackenhwv

    brackenhwv PetForums Senior

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    vet is concerned that may happen if he is done at this time, he's a late developer so that may change in a few months. He has a lovely nature and I don't foresee problems, but might be different when a bitch in season on the go ! If I do take on the pup I want, he would be an import so returning to breeder not such an easy thing from a practical point !
     
  13. swarthy

    swarthy PetForums VIP

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    My friend has 4 males, a neutered female and an entire female - when she decided she wanted a bitch, she opted to have her eldest Lab (who is solely a pet, the others are also shown) neutered - it wasn't a good days work.

    Neutered dogs as I understand can give off a scent - she found herself in a position whereby her two eldest dogs hated each other whereas previously they had lived together in total harmony.

    None of the other boys are neutered - one has sired a couple of litters, the others haven't - she doesn't have any major problems with them when the bitch is ready for mating, other than more noise than usual.

    I am surprised at someone perceiving there would be aggression between the dogs and that you shouldn't go there

    NO-ONE can predict really predict how this would turn out until you actually do it (unless you have encountered previous bad experiences with your resident male and bitches in season and that could be more territorial dependent on where the dogs were at the time.

    There are many breeders with multiple entire males and females living in houses or kennels - and the dogs reside quite happily side by side regardless of what else is going on.

    Some people say they wouldn't take an in-season bitch into a house with other entire bitches - we did when the owners travelled a long way for the mating - the other girls didn't bat an eyelid - the boy being used was quite happy to stay out of the way between matings, and the other boy was easily managed through switching around rooms and crates for the duration of their stay.
     
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