Puppy trauma

Discussion in 'Dog Training and Behaviour' started by LinLin, Dec 3, 2009.


  1. LinLin

    LinLin PetForums Newbie

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    Another question on my 14-week old new puppy. We were out for a walk today in an area where I didn't think any other dogs would be. Wrong! Someone had two huge dogs off a leash... when I realised they might see us, I scooped up my pup. Unfortunately, the big dogs eventually spotted us and bounded over. Friendly but huge. My wee one squealed and squirmed in my arms and the big dogs scampered off.

    I stayed calm, walked with him to a nearby spot, put him down and did some basic commands that he knows (sit and shake). He did those fine, and I gave him lots of praise. Then we went home for calm and cuddles.

    I'm concerned about what residual effect that encounter might have. What if anything can I do help him (besides being extra cautious about where I walk him in the future, obviously!!)?
     
  2. ad_1980

    ad_1980 PetForums VIP

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    um...why did you scoop him up? Why didn't you just leave him on his leash and introduce him to those two dogs? You're not doing much for his socialisation by just scooping him up. You're not teaching him anything except to be fearful of other dogs.

    When you see dogs running up, off lead put your dog on his leash and let the dogs meet each other and sniff around.
     
  3. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    I've got a puppy about the same age as yours. She's been approached a lot by large dogs, I let her deal with it. If she's off lead, I leave her off. Mostly she's fine, a couple of times she's been knocked over by accident, squealed a bit - but she's straight back out there, approaching the same dog that just bounced her and playing with it.

    By picking your puppy up, you're just teaching it that other dogs are a threat it has to be protected from.
     
  4. Polimba

    Polimba PetForums VIP

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    I agree with everyone else, not that I'm an expereinced dog owner. My understanding is that puppies need to meet and greet lots of dogs. By scooping him up you are teaching him there is something to fear.

    I'm not actually sure dogs realise their size? :eek: I took my Ridgeback puppy to a puppy paty last night and he was being bullied by a tiny spaniel about a tenth of this size.

    Mu puppy can't go out yet but he plays with our neighbour's dog who is huge, he has to get used to it. At first he was taken aback by her bounding at her but now they play well together, and it wears him out :D
     
  5. Becki&Daisy

    Becki&Daisy PetForums Senior

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    Yeah you really shouldn't have picked her/him up.

    i always let other dogs come up to Daisy (who was TINY) she got flicked up and flipped in a boxers legs, she got growled at, layed on ..you name it.

    and now she's totally sociable. loves everything and everyone. doesnt growl doesnt run away she's brilliant.


    Her sister (my OH's parents have her) is the opposite and i honestly think it all stems down from them scooping her up should another dog come close. they still do it now! she growls. she bites. she runs away and ignores commands.

    just try to relax. :thumbup1: it's honestly for the best. it wouldn't hurt for them to be confronted as well as it lets them know what they can/ cant get away with when other dogs are involved.
    best of luck!
     
  6. LinLin

    LinLin PetForums Newbie

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    OK, I'm hearing it's best to let him deal with the big dogs himself. What went through my mind was an 'uh-oh' as the vet has told me to keep my pup away from strange dogs til he has had all his shots (he didn't get them from the breeder). So I thought there might be danger to his health if they were sniffing each other. I'm not quite sure why the advice to keep him away from strange dogs, but I've heard it from several people and thought it best to not let them make physical contact.

    And a word on timing, I'd been holding him earlier and he'd been down on the ground only a minute or two before the car with the other dogs drove up. So I just picked him up again. It was a good minute or two before the other dogs saw us, and I doubt my guy made a direct link between the big dogs and being picked up.
     
    #6 LinLin, Dec 3, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  7. Corinthian

    Corinthian PetForums Member

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    There is another potential problem that hasn't been brought up. In some dogs, if you lift another dog over their head it creates an aggressive response. No all, but enough for me to say that it is generally a bad idea.

    Secondly, by lifting the pup you take away it's option to withdraw from the situation if it feels uneasy. This makes it so that they try to make the approaching dog go away - by aggressive means.
     
  8. Akai-Chan

    Akai-Chan Banned

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    Why were you even walking your puppy outside if it hasn;t had it;s shots yet??

    Peace
    Akai-Chan
     
  9. thedogsmother

    thedogsmother Moderator

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    The reason your vet was warning you to keep your pup away from other dogs till he has his shots is they can pass on disease, what he should have told you is that the same diseases can be passed on just from your pup walking on the ground where other dogs have been, you need to carry your dog until his shots are complete and only let him down in areas where you are certain no dogs have been, like your garden.
     
  10. LinLin

    LinLin PetForums Newbie

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    Ouch -- I sure wish I had had that extra bit of information from the vet. I would not have had him out if I'd known that!!!

    :eek:
     
  11. leashedForLife

    leashedForLife PetForums VIP

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    hey, lin! :--)

    i am sorry the vet did not have sense-enuf to explain that it is rarely the DOGS -
    it can be, if it is dog-flu or something similar - but their WASTE is the primary worry. :sad:

    Parvo-virus here in Tidewater-Va can be on the ground, Alive!, for 2-years after the dog-stool that contained it, was left...
    as we rarely have a killing frost! :eek:

    i try to introduce pups to lots + lots + lots + LOTS of dogs, all ages, sizes, shapes, and sexes - :thumbup1:
    as long as they are dog-social and pretty tolerant of pups, they meet on-leash on the sidewalk, on the bike-path (NO off-path sniffing or peeing! too many dogs, too much leftover germs to expose pup...),
    in the local tennis courts for a play-date, in another pup-owners yard, on school grounds where few dogs go, at the local pet-supply on leash, etc.

    some VETs here run puppy-play groups - the pups are not learning sit or down, they are all young, and are only there to meet other pups + learn manners, dog social skills and have fun safely.
    a good MONITOR tho, is an essential pre-requisite for such play groups!
    otherwise small or soft pups get mugged by bigger or pushier pups, and seeds of ill feeling are sown... :(

    At The Beach below the high-tide mark -
    the beach gets washed 2x daily, but has its own hazards! watch out for dead fish, HOOKS and lines in the weed tossed up, BAITED hooks in the tidewrack, and so on... fish BONES and bird BONES from dead critters are very attractive, very very sharp, and dangerous!

    the more dogs + pups the young pup meets + plays with, the better -
    and preferably ** before! ** the close of the primary socialization period, at 12-WO / 3-MO.
    (not much time, i know...)

    maybe U could organize a puppy meet-up on-line?
    in a low-risk area, like a school grounds or tennis-court?

    cheers,
    --- terry
     
  12. ad_1980

    ad_1980 PetForums VIP

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    you shouldn't have taken the dog out for a walk at all if he hasn't had all his shots. The shots are meant to prevent him from disease which he can pick up from walking in any public area including where dogs have walked. All vets should advise that you don't walk your dog at least a week until the pups has had his or her second shot.

    Your vet doesn't seem very good to me if he hasn't informed you about the puppy care correctly. I would use another vet in my opinion.

    And you don't know that your dog didn't see a link there. He saw dogs. He could feel you were trying to keep him away from them, which is why he was struggling out of your arms he wanted to play. You prevented him from doing that so he must've channelled your protective feelings and that's prob taught him 'oh oh big dogs should i be scared here?'. You don't know how soon a pup has reacted to the scoop up. Dogs are very intelligent, far more so than us humans are.

    Make sure your pup has all shots before taking him for a walk again, and then when you do take him out, and you see another dog, don't worry about that other dog. Leave your dog on leash, on the ground and allow the pup to socialise.
     
  13. ad_1980

    ad_1980 PetForums VIP

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    Also i'd like to suggest you read this book - The Perfect Puppy, by Gwen Bailey. The perfect book for new inexperienced dog owners. there's a lot of good information there.
     
  14. Emraa

    Emraa PetForums Senior

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    I know what it's like LinLin, years ago when we rescued a dog I knew nothing. I took her out on heat, without vaccinations etc but you live and you learn!

    Lots of playing in your house/garden from now on until your pup is up to date with his vacs, then the fun begins when it is safe for him to mix with other dogs.

    Chin up :)

    PS What breed is your pup?
     
  15. Becki&Daisy

    Becki&Daisy PetForums Senior

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    Well i think it's like common knowledge that you can't take a puppy out until it's had all it's vaccinations..... :shocked:
     
  16. LinLin

    LinLin PetForums Newbie

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    Well, I'm appreciate all the replies and am also feeling pretty exasperated with all the criticism. I approached this board as a place to learn rather than a place to be raked over the coals for what I didn't know.

    I've owned and cared for a total of six different ADULT dogs but never a pup, and never have I heard about pups and there shots other than knowing they needed them.

    I'd love there to be more understanding and consideration that what is obvious to one person is not inherently obvious to everyone. Does that make sense? I'd love to feel comfortable, instead of fearful, of asking honest questions here and perhaps making a mistake or two along the way.
     
  17. rona

    rona Guest

    I'm sorry for some of the responses that you have had, I cannot understand why people think that knowledge about pets should be any different from gaining other knowledge.
    If you don't know something, then you don't know that a question needs asking, and no matter how much information is out there you still need to know what to ask.
    I hope you are not too offended and stick around. You obviously care about your dog :)
     
  18. leashedForLife

    leashedForLife PetForums VIP

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    re ad-1980


    hey, addy! :--)

    even after a vacc has been given, the pups immune-system must react, and produce ANTI-bodies to the vacc -
    it is not instantaneous, the fastest response that i know of, is to the Intra-Nasal vax for kennel-cough AKA Tracheobronchitis;
    it can be as rapid as 5 days to a good titre (blood test of resistance + antibody levels).

    but vax are complex and have their own hazards -
    too doggone many vets still jab the pup with a bloody great cocktail of 5 or 6 valents :shocked:, which is frankly insane. :frown2:
    no immature immune-system can scramble in that many directions, all at once! :mad:
    it sets pups up for vax-reactions, and makes a good sound immune-system less likely.

    the ** standard ** for full immunity AFTER a vaccination is anything from 21 days to a month -
    and a month is the safer bet.

    in the USA, that means if a pet is bitten by another animal, and it is under 30 days post-rabies vax,
    always assume exposure! :eek:
    a VA woman and her daughter were very upset when their kitten, after escaping the house and being found in a few days,
    later developed active-rabies; the kitten was euthed, and both she + her daughter had to get the post-exposure series. :sad:
    the woman said her vet should have TOLD her that the rabies vac was not immediate protection...
    now i ask U, is that reasonable?
    immunity is not instant or even 24-hrs, it takes time to mount an antibody response.


    healthy pups meeting other healthy dogs + pups, in a reasonably clean environment, is pretty safe + simple.
    U cannot wait for ALL shots to be given and immunity to be complete; but the risk of infection is low,
    whilst risk of problem behaviors due to too-late or insufficient socialization is quite high.
    there is the low chance of pinkeye, etc, and the very-low risk of something REALLY nasty...
    vs a strong likelihood of behavioral fallout, if socialization waits on immunity.

    there is a vet PSA on that - i will try to lay hands on it, and post here! :thumbup1:

    cheers,
    --- terry
     
  19. mitch4

    mitch4 PetForums VIP

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    Hi I think sometimes when youv had lots of pups and over many years you tend to forget that what is now in built knowledge in our skulls is only there because we were told, your vet didnt do his job in a clear enough way and let you down, you havent let your pup down. Dont worry now you know it will be fine. I find sometimes forums such as this is where you get really good range of experiences and knowledge you can pick the bits you like and do your own research in other areas and you will come up with common ground in careing for your dog where you feel happy with, some areas are the same for us all asin the vacinateing opf pups but again your vet should have been more accurate in his info to you.

    Piccies please of the little one :)
     
  20. littlefairy

    littlefairy PetForums Member

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    hi linlin
    please dont feel people are being hard on you, I have a puppy the same age as yours and although Id had a puppy before that was 12 years ago, and you forget what hard work they are :p
    Ive found this forum to be really friendly and very helpfull, its great to have so many people who've been in the same situation as you to offer advice :)
    love to see some pics of your new addition :D
     
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