Pros & Cons of feeding RAW

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by Plabebob, Nov 29, 2010.


  1. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Without meaning to sound rude (there's been quite enough of that going on recently, not on this thread but a few ruffled feathers elsewhere), but I've never told people that all kibble is rubbish, and respect their views if they feel that a good quality kibble is nutritionally right for their dog(s), who am I to argue? I don't take the mickey out of anyone who has researched and believe they are feeding their dog or any pet, a good diet, which is why I feel you are coming across as harsh.

    I prefer to raw feed because I don't like feeding processed foods, studies have linked different kind of processing and food manufacture to all sorts of illnesses and disease. I eat as many fresh ingredients as I can myself, and give my dogs good fresh food, although they don't mind the occasional bit of processed left overs in there either, but then who doesn't like the occasional bit of 'naughty' food. Any basic science will tell you raw is much better as long as it's presented in a way that nutrients can be absorbed.

    RAW Truth: Raw Fresh Produce Vs. Cooked Food | yourgreensite.net - a green web portal devoted to organic and sustainable lifestyle, travel, holistic health, environment, art and design

    One article among many, if you start to look at the benefits of eating raw food, with links to scientific studies.
     
  2. SlingDash

    SlingDash PetForums Senior

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    No - that's fair enough - I was only asking.

    As for "offence"? You don't have to worry about that here.

    Unlike having to do so when it comes to certain other members.

    :rolleyes:
     
  3. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    I'm not sure just what you mean by this?? Other than trying to make a provocative remark, or cheap shot at me or someone else who doesn't necessarily agree with feeding kibble, in which case I'm afraid it just doesn't work. A saying I often go by, I value the opinion of those I respect ;)
     
  4. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    Two good books:

    Dr Tom Lonsdale's - Raw Meaty Bones.
    Dr Ian Billinghurst - Give your dog a bone.

    Useful link:
    Dog Digestion | BarfWorld: Fresh Frozen Dog Food

    The definition of a dog is definitely carnivore. It doesn't have the teeth of an omnivore but will eat a variety of foods to survive as it's an opportunist, just like the fox. As it cannot always hunt for prey unlike the cat, it will eat a variety of foods. His teeth are nothing like that of the omnivorous human, having no molars for grinding and his digestive tract is shorter and better equipped for eating and digesting meat, as this link explains: Fact Or Fiction - Are Dogs Omnivores?

    Carnivore vs. Omnivore
    definition of dog from Oxford Dictionaries Online

    My teeth are nothing like my dogs, thank goodness and to date I don't know of any human who has such, unless of course they've had them altered to be that way, lol. :)

    This isn't meant as a slur to anyone feeding kibble etc., just a response - all be it late - to a question asked of me earlier in this thread.
     
    #104 Malmum, Dec 8, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  5. sandymere

    sandymere PetForums Member

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    I love it! What a good site it made me giggle at the first paragraph
    “The typical species in its natural pristine environment lives seven times past its age of maturity. Humans normally mature in their late teens to early twenties. Our average potential life span in robust wellness is actually in the range of 120-140 years. This is never actualized due to the effects of heating food and not learning to skillfully handle psychological stress through self-mastery.
    Lordy how did they come to that conclusion? Based on any evidence? No! I could as easily say the reason we don’t live to two hundred is because we live in houses and so live an un-natural life lol. I do love the site, I thought of spending lunch going through it to highlight all the dodgy claims/science but I expect it would be a little cruel so I will just say that it uses a lot of jargon but doesn’t seem to know what the jargon means. Ah thank you Horse and hound.
     
  6. sandymere

    sandymere PetForums Member

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    Thanks for your reply Malmum, your “Two good books” are books written to sell, if the authors were really looking to forward veterinary science there ideas would first have been published in a veterinary journal were they could be reviewed by their peers ie vets who specialize in the field. They weren’t which suggests the authors doubted there own conclusions/science, the Aitkin’s diet has been described a “good book” but I wouldn’t base a healthy diet on it, maybe take some ideas on board but that would be it.
    A quick look at your links;
    Dog Digestion | BarfWorld: Fresh Frozen Dog Food
    this is a site selling frozen meat and so hardly unbiased, but hay ho, lets have a look, a quote

    “The definition of a dog is definitely carnivore. It doesn't have the teeth of an omnivore but will eat a variety of foods to survive as it's an opportunist, just like the fox. As it cannot always hunt for prey unlike the cat, it will eat a variety of foods. His teeth are nothing like that of the omnivorous human, having no molars for grinding and his digestive tract is shorter and better equipped for eating and digesting meat,…”
    Unfortunately this doesn’t look at the whole picture and ignores some very salient points. A wolf/dog doesn’t need the grinding teeth as that process mastication of the vegetable matter has already been done by the prey animal. Having gutted many rabbits, hares etc over the years I can assure you that a hare caught in the morning has a large amount of vegetable matter in its stomach, around a quarter of its body weigh, and this has been broken down already so the dog/wolf only has to digest it, it needs teeth to break don the carcass so it can digest this calorie source rather than ones to re masticate. I don’t understand the bit “As it cannot always hunt for prey unlike the cat” that’s lost me lol, do dogs have Bank holidays?.
    The next link falls at the same hurdle Fact Or Fiction - Are Dogs Omnivores? “The second factor is their digestive system. Dogs do not have enzymes in their saliva that can quickly break down starches and carbohydrates. This task is placed on the pancreas. A dog's pancreas only can produce a small amount of enzymes, if a dog eats a small portion of vegetation. If you feed your dog large amounts of vegetables, its pancreas is pushed to the limit. Pushing any organ to the limit is hazardous to any animal's health
    The dog doesn’t add amylase in at chewing as it doesn’t chew, it adds it in at the stomach, just as we do, as that is where it is needed and it’s not “pushed to the limit” any more than you would be if you ate a burger in a bun. It’s this infant school idea that evolution has reached a point and everything is black and white and can be put in little boxes. From carnivore to herbivore is a continuum rater than fixed points so most species can move along to a degree as a human can be a carnivore as with the Inuit traditionally having virtually no vegetable matter in their diet or a hill collie of the last century eating oats yet still working long and hard. Cats are true carnivores, humans omnivores and dogs fall between the two in digestion, I can give more info but it gets a little heavy so on to the next quote;

    Carnivore vs. Omnivore “Scientists can argue forever as to whether our dogs today are carnivores requiring a high protein dog food with a few omnivorous traits or omnivores that still retain their 40 million year old carnivore anatomy and physiology – wouldn’t it be easier if we let mans best friend make the decision. Next time you have a chance…put an ear of corn alongside a piece of steak and see which dog diet your pet naturally selects
    Well put an ear of corn along side a steak and I would eat the steak, so I must be a carnivore! It’s a nonsensical statement (in truth a Devon cream tea would be better perhaps this means I’m a clotted creamivore). Slightly more seriously I agree dogs should get a high protein/meat diet but argue that carbs have their place and cooking/completes aren’t the evils they are made out to be but mainly I hate pseudo science.
    Lastly a dogs teeth are very different from a wolves they are much smaller in comparison to body size which means that they aren’t as good at dealing with larger pieces and perhaps this is why there are so many instances of dogs choking, basically we’ve bred for smaller teeth for so long and to such an extent that its having an impact on feeding. It may be an idea to look beyond slightly dodgy none professional web sites and look at the vet’s journals etc as this is where the new science is found and ideas presented.
    Regards sandy.
     
  7. sandymere

    sandymere PetForums Member

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    sue&harvey thanks for your reply in answer to a couple of points, quoted in italics;
    "It does come acoss as your way or the highway though. What is laughable to you is your opinion on something, just as others value the resource. People don't tend to like "to be made" to see anything. Offered other resources mabey."

    I know I’m terrible :eek: but afraid I fell in to the trap of critical thinking so when I read a web site I think about what is written and unfortunately many of these sites work on the principle that most just believe without thinking, perhaps I should stop thinking. There is loads of research that show if you challenge beliefs that are based on poor foundations the believer clings more tightly to those questionable beliefs as a way of protecting against having to admit to being fooled. Or in old speak you can’t put knowledge into a closed brain. Personally I enjoy my thoughts and suggestion being challenged as it gives me new areas to look into and knowledge to consider, I would love for raw to be the answer to all our problems but alas it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny, a sensible balanced diet remains the winner so far. I hope people don’t take to much offence as my posts look at the evidence people put forward and don’t judge the poster who I’m sure in the majority of cases are acting on what they believe to be the best intentions.


    "I don't really see what youre getting at to be honest. One min you are saying cooked ad another something on Kibble."

    Sorry you lost me there. Perhaps kibble is cooked?


    "The relevence of the photos me. If they are titled Kibble fed dogs, perhaps you could reference the page?"

    Reference the page? Pics of dogs are the ones, not the lizard etc i don't expect they eat cooked.
    Sandy.
     
  8. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    Would have thought all books published are sold, that's why we buy them, to read their contents - newspapers & magazines too. Perhaps you know where we can get them free - please tell! ;)

    I think it's a real shame the OP's thread has been completely highjacked in this way - at least the OP may find something useful in the links the rest of us are posting! Hope so! :)

    Just for the record - are you a scientist?
     
  9. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    I thought the point of this thread was to debate raw food. This is what is happening imo, so not sure why you think that it has gone off track?
     
  10. Sleeping_Lion

    Sleeping_Lion Banned

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    Sandymere, do you honestly just get off on being so sarcastic and rude to people who don't happen to hold the same opinion as you? Really, perhaps you need to stop just copying and pasting your own posts from forum to forum and actually do something constructive.

    There's absolutely no point in even trying to respond to your sheer rudeness and ignorance. You obviously *think* you are absolutely right because your links are better than mine, how childish. You ignore basic science that tells us that in the majority of cases, processing food devalues the nutrients, and combining fresh ingredients helps us to absorb the most vitamins and minerals.

    You don't perhaps sell kibble do you :rolleyes: Is there an ignore button???
     
  11. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    The post below yours explains perfectly why I think it's gone off course!

    Gutting a rabbit - no need! Freezing a rabbit - again no need. Pork and beef are the only meats to be wary of if not first frozen and if human grade from a butcher no risk at all! Shows a complete lack of knowledge of raw feeding.

    One case in the UK of a raw fed dog becoming fatally il due to feeding raw beef - ever!

    Many many raw feeders I know get their rabbits from the local game warden, they are certainly not gutted as you'd lose all the essential nutrients that offal and innards contain. When feeding raw it is a good idea to regularly worm your dog but then we all do that anyway.

    Obviously when SM guts and freezes the dogs rabbits it must be a bank holiday - one of those days when they are not roaming free to catch their own and eat it whole! :rolleyes:

    I agree with sleeping lion - there are ways to put your point across and downright rudeness!

    Think we should stop rising to the bait TBH, as it seems to be a wind up!
     
    #111 Malmum, Dec 8, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  12. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    I am honestly lost. Who says that you don't need to freeze rabbit and other game but should freeze pork and beef?

    Lalalalallalalal - forget the rest I have said .....
     
    #112 hobbs2004, Dec 8, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  13. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    Myth: MY DOG WILL ACQUIRE PARASITES FROM THE RAW MEAT IN A RAW DIET.

    Yes, there can be parasites in raw meat. But if you are getting meaty bones and carcasses from places fit for human consumption, the parasite factor is negligible. Most parasites are a non-issue and can be safely dealt with by your dog if it is healthy.

    The parasite issue is something than non-raw folk use as a scare tactic, telling you that your dog is going to die if it eats raw meat because it will get a weird parasite. They neglect to tell you the very low incidence of these parasites in meat deemed safe for human consumption; nor do they tell you the most "deadly" of these parasites come from things like infected sheep placentas or stillborn calves. Simple solution—do not feed those things to your dog. If the dog looks like it has parasites, simply get a stool sample or blood sample taken. A dog can be wormed holistically or allopathically (the chemical insecticide dewormers). But generally speaking, if your dog has a healthy immune system, it can deal with the parasites before they even get a chance to establish themselves. Parasites hate a very healthy host.

    MYTHS ABOUT FEEDING RAW.
    Freezing meat can help kill many parasites (such as the parasite present in salmon that CAN cause a deadly disease in dogs; freezing fresh raw salmon, steelhead, trout, and other salmonids for at least 24 hours before feeding effectively disposes of the parasite. Cooked salmon does not carry the parasite.). As long as one exercises caution in obtaining their meat, parasites are a non-issue. If feeding fresh salmonids or wild game, it is recommended that the meat be deep frozen for at least 24 hours before feeding for salmonids and one month for wild game.

    Do not give in to the bacteria and parasite scare tactics. The suggestion of cooking your dog's food is actually quite harmful! It is the cooked food that causes problems with the dog's digestive system and that can result in the nutritional deficiencies vets claim they see from raw diets (in reality, most of these nutritional deficiencies arise primarily from home-cooked diets, since cooking destroys many valuable nutrients.). This issue is dealt with in further detail in the Cooked Food myth.

    This is a myth made possible by our society's pathological fear of bacteria. Of the millions of bacteria on this earth, it is estimated that less than 1% are harmful. Media and society as a whole have played up bacteria, painting it as an evil nemesis that must be stomped out with disinfectants, antibacterial everything, and unnecessary vaccination. This has resulted in the emergence of super-bacteria and "super-viruses", no thanks to the improper use of antibiotics and the plethora of antibacterial soaps and products. Developmental biologists have recently learned that bacterial exposure is absolutely necessary for the development of a healthy immune system, among other things. Humans and dogs have evolved in the presence of bacteria, and insisting on a sterile environment has created more damage than good. So where does this intersect with raw feeding?

    Raw diet critics tout this myth as a main reason for not feeding raw. Yes, there is bacteria in raw meat. Yes, this bacteria can harm you. Yes, this bacteria is sometimes shed in dogs' feces. So if a raw-fed dog licks you, are you going to get sick? I suppose all things are possible, but on the whole: no, you will not get sick. This bacteria does not persist in the mouth of a raw-fed canine. Canine saliva contains lysozyme, an enzyme that lyses and destroys bacteria, but more importantly, the absence of plaque means the dog's mouth is no longer a hospitable place for bacteria to inhabit. A kibble-fed dog's mouth, however, provides the perfect environment for bacteria growth: plaque-covered teeth with sugary and starchy complexes provide both food and shelter for bacteria. The bacteria thrive in the mouth of a kibble-fed dog because it provides both a perfect atmosphere and a good food source (Lonsdale, T. 2001. Raw Meaty Bones.). Why does a kibble-fed dog have stinky dog breath? Because of the bacteria in their gums and on their teeth (just like the bacteria in our mouths gives us halitosis). A raw-fed dog's mouth provides neither food nor a viable atmosphere for bacteria, which is why a raw-fed dog has odorless breath. So which dog would you be more worried about being kissed by and contracting disease from? I personally would be quite leery of the stinky-breathed, bacteria-laden kibble-fed dog. If one is still worried about being licked by a raw-fed dog, one has several solutions. Teach the dog not to lick, or avoid being licked. But if you have a healthy immune system, being licked and in contact with a raw-fed dog will not affect you other than boosting your immune system. This is the same thing for kids: being around and licked by a raw-fed dog will do nothing but boost their immune systems and help them grow up into happy, healthy adults.

    As for dogs shedding bacteria in their feces: do not eat dog poo and wash your hands after feeding your dogs or cleaning up after them. Handle the raw meat you feed your dogs the same way you handle your own raw meat (which can get you sick if you eat it raw or do not clean up well enough afterward; do the experts really think that people are not smart enough to figure out that they should wash their hands and countertops after preparing raw meaty bones for their dogs? Apparently so.). If you have kids, teach the children not to eat dog poo and clean up immediately after your dog, and you will not need to worry. Bacteria is absolutely everywhere. You are just as likely, if not more likely, to get sick from your produce or a strange bathroom. You do not need to worry about the dog tracking bacteria through the house; there is plenty of bacteria throughout the house anyway, so any additional bacteria a raw-fed dog might add is negligible. Thousands of people—even immunocompromised people—feed their dogs raw with no bacteria issues and with stronger immune systems as a result.

    Anti-raw people protest that raw-fed dogs pose a serious health risk to immunocompromised people and people with auto-immune disorders. Oddly enough, it is these immunocompromised people who have a better understanding of the important role nutrition plays in strengthening the immune system. A quick tour of the Yahoo! Rawfeeding group will reveal quite a few people who have an auto-immune disorder but have been feeding their dogs raw for many years with no ill results whatsoever. Anti-raw people (vets included) make it sound like immuno-compromised people (and most other people) are incapable of properly handling raw meat and cleaning up afterwards. The solution proposed—do not feed raw meaty bones!—is absurdly condescending (they assume we cannot clean up after ourselves and are incapable of feeding our dogs because we lack a credential in pet nutrition), and skips the most logical step: simply observe proper hygiene and use the same precautions you use in preparing your own meat. It is not that difficult, honestly.

    People proclaiming this "serious health risk" claim seem to think people are incapable of a) properly feeding their dogs and b) cleaning up after themselves. Use good hygiene practices: clean countertops and utensils used to feed dogs, and wash your hands. Feed the dog outside or inside on a towel or plastic-type tablecloth you can reuse and wash when needed. Or feed the dog in its crate, or on an easy-to-clean surface. By training the dog to eat in one place, you will not have to "worry" about him tracking a mess or bacteria through the house. If you are still concerned about bacteria, clean your dog's paws, mouth, etc. with a mild, safe antimicrobial like diluted white vinegar. Honestly, as long as proper hygiene is observed, the bacteria are a non-issue. Remember, you are sharing your life with an animal that licks its own rear and eats cat poop before licking your face.

    The Current Myth List

    Dogs are omnivores

    Wolves eat the stomach contents of prey

    Dogs are too far removed from wolves to be fed a raw diet

    Dogs have adapted to cooked diets

    Dogs live longer today because of commercial foods

    Wolves have shortened lifespans because of their diet

    Millions of dogs safely eat commercial foods, so why feed raw?

    Raw diets are not balanced

    Bacteria in raw meat is dangerous to my pet

    My pet will get parasites from the raw meat

    Raw-fed dogs pose a serious health risk to humans

    Raw diets vs. the AAFCO standards

    There is no scientific research to validate raw diets

    Feeding raw meat makes a dog bloodthirsty

    I am not knowledgeable enough to make my dog's food

    Raw diets are not very digestible

    Raw diets are inconvenient and expensive

    Different breeds of dogs need different diets

    Because of the risks of bones, ground raw diets are better

    Plenty of premium kibbles are available, so raw is unnecessary

    Home-made, cooked diets are viable alternatives to raw

    Vets are thoroughly qualified to dispense nutritional advice

    Small dogs and toy breeds cannot eat raw diets

    Carbohydrates are necessary in dog's diet
     
  14. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    Been a while since I read that. Still not sure where your "freeze beef and pork comment comes in"? Did someone on here say that?

    I guess with pork it does depend on where you are in the world. While it is ok for cats and dogs to eat raw pork in the UK, it isn't advised for many parts of the continent.

    I would like to pick out one point though

    While vets may see pets suffering nutritional deficiencies from a homecooked diet, that is a bit of a brush statement to make, isn't it. We might not agree with a homecooked diet but there complete supplements available to those who do homecook or some decent recipes to follow to prevent those problems.

    From a feline perspective at least, there have been some studies that have shown nutritional deficiencies in raw diets (not saying that these are perfectly conducted studies - they are not, or that their reference point is correct, which are guidelines for US or European commercial food makers).

    But the point is that we as raw feeders are taking on a responsibility to make sure that we are providing our paws (feline or canine) with all the nutrients they need.
     
  15. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    In pork the parasite is Trichinosis which is virtually unknown in the UK anyway but freezing will kill the parasite.

    Salmon, as has been mentioned is usually frozen before it comes over here, so again is quite safe but if in doubt freeze.

    The only one i'd be concerned about is Neospora Caninum which can be found in beef - although again extremely rare. If frozen at -20 for at least 24 hours the meat will be safe.

    I would not feed pork before freezing if it were animal grade meat, however I do feed pork fresh from my butcher with no ill effect. Salmon is not an issue for me as the dogs don't like it but beef, whether human grade or animal grade I always freeze, because rare as it is there has been one recorded case (not sure if any more) of a dog dying due to Neospora Caninum.
     
  16. hobbs2004

    hobbs2004 PetForums VIP

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    I wasn't thinking about parasites, i.e. trichinosis, when I was saying that your choice to feed raw pork is country-dependent. I was thinking more about the viral Aujeszky disease, which is endemic in parts of Europe :)

    But hey, by the nature of how I prepare my raw food, making up batches for weeks/ a month in advance, the meat gets frozen anyhow. And I include a little salmon in my cats' batches as it is a great source of Vit D3.
     
  17. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    I don't worry too much either as mine's mostly frozen, except when I get back from my once weekly trip to the butcher who save lots of things for me on the day he knows i'm coming - last week a sectioned pigs head! The dogs hang round me like i've got lucky bags and are so ecited so I always sort them out bits before freezing the rest, their fave being pork skin. :)

    Luckily mine hate salmon (expensive) and when i've thrown them some to catch it comes back out of their mouths faster than it's gone in, lol - think they don't like the feel of it.

    At least with the butcher he can tell me it's origin but if buying from the dogfood co. I always freeze anything that's not frozen first. Also the butchers pigs trotters/ears/tails are much smaller than pet supplies so I feel they come from younger, tender stock. Apparently he says we can eat it ourselves and some of his customers do - yuk!! :eek:
     
  18. sandymere

    sandymere PetForums Member

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    I don't know same old same old without any scientific basis:(. Freezing rabbits destroys worm cysts, so you don't have wormy dogs as much, farm stock are wormed so feeding this meat raw will have a lower incidence i thought anyone who had looked into this would know that without me having to explain it. I agree this is getting a little niggly and away from the point which was pros and cons of a raw diet so perhaps a review of the subject may help;).

    The idea of a raw food diet was based on observations of two colonies of feral cats, one colony had more birth defects than the other and it was suggested that this was a result of diet. The problems with this is one, it’s based on cats not dogs and these are very different in their digestion and more importantly substrate use ie the cat is an obligate carnivore the dog is not, two, the birth defects were unlikely to be the result of the diet but rather a mixture of hereditary/environmental factors. So the first premise is floored but that doesn’t mean the idea is not without validity and so further discussion. The next reason given for the diet is that dogs don’t need or naturally eat carbohydrate so feeding it is bad for them. The evidence offered is based on a statement by a wolf biologist “wolves don’t eat the stomach contents of their prey” but this is misleading as what he said was “wolves don’t eat the stomach contents of prey over the size of a hare”. In fact in his study of Artic wolves he observed that they were feeding almost solely on young hares and lemmings all summer and so were eating all the stomach contents of their prey. So it would seem that carbs are very much a part of a wolf’s diet. Next it is said “as dogs use Gluconeogenesis to turn fat/protein in glucose they don’t need to eat carbs” the problem with this is that we use exactly the same process of Gluconeogenesis so on that evidence humans don’t need carbs either! Of course we don’t need but I doubt many qualified specialist, dietitians, would recommend a carb free diet, much more likely a balanced diet to suit the needs of the individual that is based on the three food groups of protein, fat and carbohydrate. There are many things we and our dogs don’t need but that is very different than saying shouldn’t have. As cooking carbs makes them more digestible it seems sensible to do so. There are many other claims put forward but all I’ve come across so far don’t hold up under scrutiny.
    We know that raw meat is much more likely to have infective bacteria present, we know there are risks in feeding bones, and we know dogs have changed anatomically from wolves. Why should we risk their health if it isn’t necessary? I do I feed raw meat and bones and the main post states this and why. I do some in knowledge of the risks and try to minimize them by feeding only good quality meat, not chicken, raw, and bones that are none weight bearing ie ribs as these are softer and so more easily broken down by the dogs smaller teeth. If feed a complete of around 22% protein and cooked vegetables most days with meat/bones once or twice a week. The result of this regime has been to have very fit, healthy dogs, that are able to work through the winter, run with me all year and most importantly make good pets/companions that are balanced in mind and body. I would never suggest others feed bones but leave it up to each individuals choice to consider the risks versus the clean teeth etc. I can see positives to feeding raw but advocating it to be the answer to everything and discounting carbs or cooked meat, cereal etc is a little like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
    So in conclusion I feed a mixture of raw, cooked and complete and the dogs do very well on this. I could in my opinion improve on this by feeding meat, cooked or raw, as almost 2/3rd of the meal, and a carb source, likely oats, with some cooked vegetables as the remainder but I could improve my diet slightly but doubt the effort would be worth the benefits as doing a little more exercise would have much greater results.
    Simple science realy.
     
  19. Malmum

    Malmum PetForums VIP

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    I know a lady with 15 working/showing/breeding Mals & Sibes, who used to take the lower intestine out of wild caught rabbits because of worms but she doesn't anymore because as she says they are wormed every 6 weeks anyway so no risk.
    She's been in the Mal/Husky business for years, always fed raw had no health issues and get her rabbits from a game warden, also gives some to me when she has too many. No probs here either.

    When feeding raw it's always best to err on the ide of caution and worm 6 weekly! ;)
     
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