Probably an really stupid question but ...

Discussion in 'Dog Health and Nutrition' started by mrsimpson85, Mar 1, 2012.


  1. mrsimpson85

    mrsimpson85 PetForums Senior

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    ...hopefully someone here will know the answer.

    I've just switched from a raw diet for my dogs to a commercial food on advice from a behaviourist, and he told me to aim for a protein content of around 16-19%.
    Because they were on raw, which cost me about £3 a week to feed them, I went for a cheaper option food.
    After looking at the "dry dog food index" and "wet dog food index" I've gone for skinner's field and trial, duck and rice mixed with wainwrights wet, not sure what flavour.

    My question is, skinners is 22% protein and wainwrights is 10%.
    If I feed them half and half, does the protein go up to 32%, down to 16% or am I just overcomplicating things??

    Sorry if this is me just being really, really stupid, but I was just curious.

    Thanks
     
  2. Burrowzig

    Burrowzig PetForums VIP

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    You'd have to get the moisture content of the wet food to the same proportion as the dry before attempting to calculate the total protein.

    I won't even attempt it!
     
  3. mrsimpson85

    mrsimpson85 PetForums Senior

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    Thanks, it thought is would be too easy to just to simply halve the protein, but it was worth an ask. :)
     
  4. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    Can you ask him why protein % matters when meat has 20-30% useable protein with around 70% water. Compare with commercial food with maybe less protein, some of which is of questionable benefit and the rest being filler? Dogs do not need carbohydrates (even the pet food's own guidelines do not list any requirement) which can lead to behavoural problems.
     
  5. mrsimpson85

    mrsimpson85 PetForums Senior

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    It was because 1 of my dogs is overweight and highly excitable and as they are pet dogs, not working dogs, they don't need as much protein.

    I just done a google search and found this which recommends 18%.
    Dog Food FAQs: Protein
     
  6. pogo

    pogo PetForums VIP

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    I'm sorry but again another behaviourist talking shite it's not the amount of protein it's the quality I would have stuck with the raw and got shot of him personally

    Edit: my two are pets dogs and get nothing but raw
     
  7. Lexiedhb

    Lexiedhb Team Ginger!

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    Really really odd the advice some behaviourists give. Feeding raw especially meaty bones that occupy them HAS to be better than kibble which is gone is 2 secs flat. Certainly I moved over to raw on the advice of many,(behaviourists, trainers, friends, own research) that it would actually be calming to an excitable dog, all that crunching etc is very grounding for them
     
  8. Halifu

    Halifu PetForums Member

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    If one of your dogs is overweight then surely you just need to feed less?
    Can't see the benifits of changing back to a commercial brand?
    We've found that feeding our dogs on a raw diet has calmed them as mentioned above.
     
  9. newfiesmum

    newfiesmum Moderator
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    I don't feed raw so have no axe to grind, but it seems to me that if one of your dogs is overweight, he will probably be better with raw in smaller quantities. Even on light food, I haven't been able to get any weight off Ferdie.

    Don't forget some of the people we think of as professionals just don't approve of raw feeding and put their opinions forward as expert advice.
     
  10. cinnamontoast

    cinnamontoast Really? You have NO idea about me.

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    My behaviousrist again tried to tell the OH that raw is rocket fuel (I carefully prepped him about percentage of water etc) but the biggest argument is that Zak was already an extremely energetic, hyper dog before going on to raw and his brother is calm, willing, not aggressive and they have always had the same stuff exactly. Brig, our older dog, is also on raw and his temperament has not changed, nor has his energy level since being switched from crap commercial stuff to raw.

    I worked out ages ago that Zak needs a job, basically, or more stimulation than his brother, who is basically lots better behaved and placid comparatively. Nowt to do with being fed raw.

    I think it's a dangerous thing for behaviourists to bang on about nutrition causing dogs to be hyper or naughty. I could feed Zak rice and nothing but and he'd still be a little rocket on his own!
     
  11. DoodlesRule

    DoodlesRule PetForums VIP

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    Can't get my head round that one, seems like advising an overweight person who eats fillet steak to change to mcdonalds & chips instead?
     
  12. mrsimpson85

    mrsimpson85 PetForums Senior

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    I think I will just give kibble for a while and see if it makes a difference, I'm not holding out much hope really, but i paid 250 quid to see the behaviourist so would be stupid not to take his advice and at least give it a go. I LOVE feeding my dogs raw, not just because it so cheap, (although that helps), but because they love it too.
    With getting her to lose weight, it's easier said than done. She was on RMB rather than BARF diet so trying to get food whats the right weight for her is difficult. She's a gulper rather than a chewer so her food need's to be big or she almosts chokes on it.

    I've probably got about 6 weeks of "normal food" and if it make no difference, I'll switch back, possibly trying BARF out.

    Thanks for the replies
     
  13. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    We feed RMB/Prey Model however you want to call it. Benny and Emma are both on a slight diet. We have simply reduced the % fed, 2% instead of 2.5%-3% for instance and achieved results. both are losing weight, not rapidly but slowly and steadily. Simply reducing feeding quantities can make a huge difference as can obviously exercise levels. There should be no need to change the diet itself. For Emma and Benny I actually got the scales out again to measure quantities I was feeding them. Something I had stopped doing shortly after starting raw.
     
  14. Lexiedhb

    Lexiedhb Team Ginger!

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    You also have to remember a bit the calorie content of the raw you are feeding if trying to alter weight. As we feed by BW of dog, not by calories it would be easy to overfeed on things like butchers minces which are generally offcuts/fat etc so higher in calories than say a chicken carcass.

    What I am trying to say is there is a HUGE calorie difference between 200g salad and 200g KFC
     
  15. mrsimpson85

    mrsimpson85 PetForums Senior

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    That makes perfect sense. I've just taken the overweight dog to her hydrotherapy and weighed her and she's lost nearly 2 kg in 11 weeks.
    Maybe I was getting raw feeding right?
     
  16. Horse and Hound

    Horse and Hound PetForums VIP

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    I'm all for a raw based diet to be frank, but I just don't have the freezer space as I'd want to prepare their meals a week before hand and freeze them, so I was positive they had exactly what they needed.

    As it is, mine get Skinners Museli mix every day with one of the following:

    Raw bones, raw chicken thighs/drumsticks, raw mince, raw chicken fillets, raw heart/liver/kidney, Butchers Tripe.

    Best I feel that I'm comfortable offering and this way I'm confident all the minerals and vitamins they need are there, and they love it.
     
  17. Lexiedhb

    Lexiedhb Team Ginger!

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    Sounds like you were to me. :001_smile:
     
  18. smokeybear

    smokeybear PetForums VIP

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    I am assuming that the behaviourist you saw was via a vet referral? As of course no reputable behaviourist will see clients until medical conditions have been ruled out as it would be a waste of their time and your money to try and get a handle on something that was outside their scope.

    The vast majority of reputable behaivourists in the UK belong to either the APBC, COAPE or UKRCB.

    They SHOULD have a relevant degree to demonstrate their academic skills and empirical experience.

    Unfortunately the term "behaviourist" is not a protected one and any old Tom Dick or Harry can call themselves one with no fear of redress.

    I am not getting into the debate of what label you post on your raw feeding, to me feeding raw is a way of tailoring a diet to suit the individual rather than following a school of thought.

    However being overweight is simply too much energy going in and not enough being expended, so up the exercise and reduce the food.

    THere are plenty of overweight dogs on commercial diets.

    As for percentages of protein there is not a minimum or maximum protein percentage requirement for dogs (as yet) and of course there are the issues of complete v incomplete, bio availability etc.

    Finally a reputable behaviourist would not have advised you on diet IN THIS MANNER unless they had the relevant canine nutritional qualifications, very very few do.

    Dogs do not chew, so it matters little the size of the food, but how you give it to her can help.

    Dogs gnaw, slice, tear, rip, bite and swallow, they do not have the flat molars or lateral jaw action to chew........ ;)

    I would not blame the diet itself for your problems but the amount and manner in which it is delivered.
     
  19. cheekyscrip

    cheekyscrip one arm bandit in stitches

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    I should think that allpreservatives in kibble..artificial colouring and so willexacerbate the hyperactivity..like it does in humans?
    I think you just wasted 250 pounds...:(
     
  20. Baileys Blind

    Baileys Blind PetForums Senior

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    When I saw a behaviourist a few years ago now after ruling most things we got onto food and she advised me to go home, research BARF (as it was then) and swith TO raw

    Turned out she was right, he was allergic to the additives and preservatives and it made him hyper :crazy: Two weeks of feeding nothing but raw and he was like a different dog :D

    Funnily enough Bailey shows a lot of similar symptoms and after lots of try outs I've found he can't have wheat.

    I do still give them a small amount of dry for breakfast but a wheat free one, their main meal is raw. Just makes it easier when I go away or if I can't get out for meat it's a handy back up.

    One thing I've noticed when I feed raw they seem fuller for longer and are not trying to mug me for our leftovers :D
     
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