Interesting new take on Veganism - BBC film - Carnage

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by rottiepointerhouse, Mar 16, 2017.


  1. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Just seen this and am amazed to hear the BBC commissioned a film about veganism. Its a very different take coming from the future looking back at our meat/dairy eating habits.

    Stand-up comedian Simon Amstell directs his first feature length film Carnage - Swallowing The Past, for BBC iPlayer.

    https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/simon-amstell-on-his-new-vegan-mockumentary-carnage

    Some context:Carnage is a mockumentary set in a utopian 2067, full of enlightened young people disgusted at the idea that their grandparents ever ate meat and drank milk. Almost everyone is vegan. By looking back at Britain's bloodbath of a past, the documentary makers aim to break the taboo of talking about a time when eating animals was normal, while also showing compassion for the complicit masses – poor grandad, he just ate beef because society told him to – who didn't know any better. The obvious comparison is drawn to our awkward relationship with war atrocities and those who committed them.

    The film pans through decades of adverts, TV shows and cultural artefacts, which – in the context of this new vegan world – look very strange. One standout moment is a clip of Nigella Lawson preparing a chicken; she makes a smiley comment about admiring and respecting the bird, then casually smashes her weight down onto its body, making a horrible loud crunch. From there on, the film explores Amstell's imagined cultural and economic battleground, where the vegan movement grows in Britain and manages to overthrow a country that's always adored its meat-and-two-veg. The furious middle-class white man who feels unsettled in a changing world is played brilliantly by James Smith, AKA The Thick of It's Glenn Cullen, who livestreams himself ranting and going into vegan cafes, saying stuff like, "So depressing, the first thing I see is a lentil," mocking the customers with: "Does this make you interesting?"


    Carnage is available from 19 March, 9pm, BBC iPlayer.
     
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  2. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell PetForums VIP

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    Interesting! It will no doubt get trashed on social media with people missing the point but it will interesting to see how many get it.
     
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  3. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    Don't miss the point however I wouldn't decide to feed my dogs a vegetarian diet which is the same thing at the end of the day.
     
  4. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell PetForums VIP

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    It's not about feeding dogs. It's about feeding humans.
     
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  5. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    No difference, neither is a herbivore. Do see in the future vat grown meat as preference and less meat needs to be eaten in general but core fact remains.
     
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  6. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell PetForums VIP

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    Ermmm.... when it comes to the film there is quite a lot of difference. Might be better to watch it first before we get into the usual arguments.
     
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  7. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Not sure if you saw this thread I posted in dog chat last year? In the future we may all be forced to look at alternate means of feeding ourselves and our pets.

    http://www.petforums.co.uk/threads/would-you-consider-not-feeding-your-dogs-meat.436717/page-3


    Just reading this and looking at the opinion poll on the All About Dog Food website

    "As our regular followers will know, we're big fans of meat here at AADF but with the global demand for meat skyrocketing and its detrimental impact on the environment, climate change and animal welfare becoming more and more evident, is it time for us pet owners to start looking for alternatives?

    Although things aren't going to change any time soon, the rising price of meat (another knock-on effect of the increased demand) is a growing concern for the pet food industry and investigations are already being made into the viability of some fairly unusual meat substitutes.

    But where would you draw the line?

    Vegetarian dog foods? Vegan Foods? Foods based on proteins from insects, bacteria or even worms? What about waste products from the meat industry like feather meal? Or will it always be meat for your dog no matter the cost?

    We're really interested to hear your thoughts on this controversial subject so please share below and if you get a spare sec, drop by our home page and cast your vote in our latest opinion poll on the subject."
     
  8. Goblin

    Goblin PetForums VIP

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    What, they are going to concentrate on "animals" and meat shock horror rather than on the fact that they are still likely killing each other off in whatever war.

    It's an interesting topic and one where things do need to change. However large animal based meat will still be around, simply that the likes of you and me will never be able to afford it.
     
  9. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    How do you know what will be around in the future? I don't want to be able to afford it thanks, much nicer things to eat than lumps of dead animal or stealing the milk from baby animals.
     
  10. Mirandashell

    Mirandashell PetForums VIP

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    @Goblin where did the leap to war come from? You are making some massive jumps away from the subject of the thread. Which leads me to think I should leave it here.
     
  11. Sweety

    Sweety PetForums VIP

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    If it weren't for the demand for milk though, those baby animals wouldn't be here in the first place.
     
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  12. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Oh goodness - that argument is as old as the hills. What other species steals the milk of another species? when you actually stop and think seriously about it its pretty gross to keep a cow in an almost permanent state of pregnancy so that we can take the milk intended for her baby. That milk is not intended for humans - its intended to grow a calf from 50 pounds to 300 pounds in about 6 months. Humans should drink human milk and then stop when they no longer need it.
     
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  13. Lexiedhb

    Lexiedhb Team Ginger!

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    I agree with this. I also think it very odd that we as a species drink another animals milk once we are weaned.
     
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  14. picaresque

    picaresque Mongrelist

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    Don't really get this argument. It's not like being born does them any good.

    As for being the only species who drinks another animal's milk, humans do a lot of things that no other animals do so is it really that odd?

    I'm an omnivore anyway but the programme sounds interesting, will probably watch it.
     
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  15. Phoenix Rising

    Phoenix Rising PetForums Senior

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    I get that some people don't like the idea of having to kill animals to eat meat (I probably wouldn't eat meat if I had to kill the animal myself first each time!) but don't see the problem with keeping animals to produce milk, eggs, cheese etc if the animals are well taken care of. Alternative milks are so expensive you can't get 4L for same price as cows milk....so if they were reducing the amount of animals available for food would normal cows milk (which is usually cheaper now) be more expensive and alternative milks cheaper?
    Would eggs still be available to the majority of us that don't own a small farm where they could keep their own animals for eggs, milk etc?
     
  16. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    Its a very complicated issue and one each person has to come to their own conclusion about once they have thoroughly researched and understood the issues involved. I'm afraid the demand for cheap animal products is one of the main driving forces for the appalling way in which we treat animals in intensive farming facilities. Decent free range/organic or ethically produced products tend to cost a lot more and the general public are reluctant to part with their cash preferring to ignore the source of their meat/eggs/dairy products. So the problem a lot of people have with keeping animals to produce milk is the cruelty involved. Dairy cows are pregnant for 9 months, 7 of which they are also being milked. They are impregnated every year. The calf would normally suckle for 9 months to a year but calves born on dairy farms are taken away a day or two after birth so that we can drink the milk intended for them. This separation is traumatic and callous. Being pregnant and lactating at the same time is exhausting for the mother. Their female calves are either kept for future dairy production or beef production and slaughtered at 15 - 24 months. The males are either used for beef or veal or killed shortly after birth. Current estimates are that 100,000 to 150,000 bull calves in the UK are shot within hours of their birth. I'm sure you don't need me to tell you about the disgusting conditions intensively raised chickens are kept in or how male chicks are gassed or macerated



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...million-chicks-on-conveyor-belt-to-death.html

    Alleged undercover footage of a UK hatchery, filmed by vegetarian organisation Viva!, shows the yellow chicks from the moment they are hatched in a massive factory.

    The birds are dropped onto a conveyor belt where they are sorted by sex. The males are apparently either thrown alive into electronic mincers or instantly gassed to death.

    The females are kept for laying, but only after they have been placed in a machine that clips off the end of their beaks and jabs them against disease.

    Even birds that go onto free range or organic farms have to have their beaks clipped, to prevent them pecking other birds.

    Viva! visited two hatcheries in Preston. At Tom Barron hatchery they claimed the male chicks were gassed in a giant machine and their bodies packaged to be fed to reptiles. At Fresh Farm Hatchery they claim the birds are thrown directly into a mincer and used for fertiliser.

    The birds are sorted for sex according to colour. In the gassing method whole crates of males are put in a chamber and then packaged once they are dead. The mincing or ‘instantaneous mechanical destruction’ is usually a quicker route to death and is widely used in the US.

    Both methods are legal and approved by both the Humane Slaughter Association and the RSPCA.

    But Justin Kerswell of Viva! said the process is cruel and people should stop eating eggs.

    He said hatcheries like the two in Preston supply most of the UK’s egg farming business as hens are replaced every 18 months.

    He said even free range or organic eggs that are advertised with idyllic pictures of chicks in the farmyards kill male chicks or use birds from such factories.

    "These newborn, uncomprehending male chicks are sorted from females and then either thrown alive into giant electric mincers or gassed in their thousands.

    "It is a literal conveyor belt to death journeyed each year in Britain by 30 to 40 million animals, and all to bring the morning egg to our table,” he said.

    Martin Shaw, who played Judge John Deed and supports Viva! described the footage as “shocking”.

    “Supporting this cruel industry sees the continuation of the slaughter of male baby birds for no reason, other than their sex," he said.

    Viva! have reported the hatcheries to the authorities, although neither are doing anything illegal.

    The British Egg Information Service said it is necessary to dispose of male chicks because they are no longer of used by the food industry, which uses birds specially bred to grow fast.

    A spokesman said that male chicks are usually gassed rather than put alive into the macerating machines and the bodies are a ‘useful source of food’ to captive reptiles and birds of prey.

    Neither of the hatcheries were available for comment last night.
     
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  17. Ceiling Kitty

    Ceiling Kitty Feline Medicine Nerd

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    I respect veganism.

    Vegetarianism while still consuming dairy products, not so much.
     
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  18. Phoenix Rising

    Phoenix Rising PetForums Senior

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    Thing is even if meat was more expensive in future as there was less of it or whatever I still like the taste of several meats and wouldn't say no to someone offering me some, even if I had to eat mainly meatless meals and meat had to be a rare treat. I still love cheese and onion pasties or cheese and beans ones, quiches, I don't mind some quorn/soya subsitutes and often 'go vegetarian' to lose weight quickly for an event, but I grew up on meat and personally still like the taste and enjoy eating certain meats and I can't see that changing in my lifetime.
     
  19. rottiepointerhouse

    rottiepointerhouse PetForums VIP

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    :Hilarious:Hilarious You do make me laugh. So I answer your question about why some people find drinking milk and eating eggs unacceptable offering information about the cruelty involved in both including putting live chicks into gas chambers or macerating machines and you come back with "but I like the taste" . Do you care at all about the conditions the animals you eat the produce of are kept in?

    Getting back to the film (which is what the film is about) its set in 50 years time and is looking back at now. None of know what will happen in 50 years, we may have massive CAFO's (Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations) all over the country churning out cheap animal products and an ever increasingly sick population overwhelming the NHS with chronic and preventable diseases

    http://www.cafothebook.org/

    In the United States and other parts of the world, livestock production is becoming increasingly dominated by concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs). In a CAFO, animals are crammed by the thousands or tens of thousands, often unable to breathe fresh air, see the light of day, walk outside, peck at a plants or insects, scratch the earth, or eat a blade of grass.

    Over 50 billion food animals are raised and slaughtered every year (not including massive quantities of farmed fish). Grazing and growing feed for livestock now occupy 70 percent of all agricultural land and 30 percent of the ice-free terrestrial surface of the planet. If present trends continue, meat production is predicted to double between the turn of the 21st century and 2050. Yet already, the Earth is being overwhelmed by food animals that consume massive quantities of energy and resources, whose wastes foul waterways and farmlands, and when eaten excessively, degrade our health.


    Or we may have come to our senses and realised we can feed far more people more cheaply and we can do it without using up as much of our natural resources and without exploiting and abusing animals. There might be no McDonalds & KFC and Pizza Hut peddling their junk and humans may be returning to better health.

    Who knows if either will happen - I sure won't be alive to see the outcome unless I make it well past 100 :Bawling
     
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  20. ouesi

    ouesi Wag More Bark Less

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    Keep eating vegan and you just may :D
     
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