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Discussion in 'General Chat' started by MoggyBaby, May 4, 2016.
That's called hedging your bets
Well my instincts were proven to be right. Perhaps, like Farage, he wants a say in the Brexit negotiations?
What a kick in the teeth for the 65% of Labour supporters who backed remain by seemingly accepting a vote based on xenophobia and lies.
So he calls Brexit a bargain basement economy , unequal and all that?
And he declares his support for THAT?
How many idealists forked out money for Labour membership? To support him. As a figure of honesty and integrity among desperate seat clingers...
Think he surpasses even BJ in two faceness and closes on Gove...
Never EVER trust COMMIES!.
LEARN young generation from those who know commies first hand...
Never trusted him. Virgin Train Martyr.
Followed tradition of lies and backstabbing of Blair and Ed Miliband.
Gordon Brown was your last man standing.
@KittenKong now do you see why Corbyn wouldn't be a good PM
He seems to not know what he is doing and his speech seemed all over the place today. He changes his mind alot as well.
Never liked the guy myself.
Agree with you. RIP Labour.
Corbyn has made himself totally unelectable in the next general elections.
So Boris isn't two face after all it was Corbyn who was and he's on the opposite side of the house.
The predictions are coming true of a one party nation
I wouldn't waste my time trying to change your mind. But I do think it is important to be able to be realistic, by which I mean avoiding both the rose tinted spectacle AND the morbid doom and gloom ends of the spectrum.
And you can't be realistic without facts. Whether or not people like the facts doesn't really matter to me, it's just important to me to do the research and know them. To write off wanting to know facts as not wanting to move on and embrace the future is illogical, and nor is wanting to know facts complaining. So as someone who buys material from overseas, I am more than a litte interested in the potential trade positions we might end up in. Knowledge is power, forewarned is forearmed etc. An example of this is knowing that trading under WTO rules isn't the golden safety net it is made out to be, or that it is likely to take more than 2 years to negotiate favourable trade deals with anyone, let alone everyone. Personally I think that kind of knowledge is important, don't you?
As I can sense fingers heading towards the phrase "Well, the fact is we're leaving the EU!!!" I'll beat you to that particular stuck record. People are still allowed to be worried and unsure, especially if they know of people who have already lost jobs as a direct result of the referendum result, or are likely to if and when Brexit actually goes ahead. And being worried and unsure doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how they might have voted, either. Sure, you can tell them to deal with it, get over it, grow a pair and embrace the future you moaning minnie, but that's not exactly kind or compassionate, is it? And certainly not likely to induce positivity!
Nope not getting that phrase from me anymore, I have changed my record earlier this evening as it kept jumping
So seeing as my record has changed I'll let you worry and wait for your record to be changed
Now I will do this
More if you have many mouths to feed. Right now. Not in 2025. Those are precious years for your family and if Brexit deprives you of work it deprives your children of future they might have had if you could afford their education.
Plus just food, clothes, heating, petrol...
Maybe if I were single with secure job or better : Pension I would nor worry...
But I do.
I cannot unhave my family. Their future looks uncertain now...
Many other mothers feel just like me.
I mentioned earlier my support for Labour ended following the EU referendum. My loyalties now lie with a party north of the Border.
I make no apologies for Labour.
Having said that this doesn't mean I rate May any better, on the contrary.
It pains me to say this but I had more respect for Thatcher than May.
Perhaps she has realised she doesn't have the support for a 2nd indyref.
Hopefully she'll give everyones ears a break from the threats for the rest of the year and 8 months or so (as she intends to have a vote for independence in the autumn of next year 2018)?
Nicola Sturgeon rules out indyref in 2017
Scotland's first minister has explicitly ruled out holding a second referendum on independence this year.
If she loses will she step down like Alex Salmond did?
I hope the rest of the UK taxpayers aren't paying for there referendum again (England, Wales, Northern Ireland and Gibraltar) if so can we have a referendum to ask if we want to pay for it? Reason being we can't vote in there referendum and Scotland has not paid the UK back for the last referendum they had on independence.
Have they got permission from the UK Government and UK Parliament and House of Lords for a second independence referendum which they are meant to do? The Government has already said no to it but perhaps it should go to a vote in the UK Parliament so MP's can have a vote on it which means a bill has to pass through the UK Parliament and the House of Lords before she can have her referendum.
I wonder how many court cases there will be to stop Scotland from having its independence in a case that Scotland does vote to leave?
Is Sturgeon aware that the UK pumps more trade into Scotland than the EU as Scotland doesn't have any trade deals with the EU, the UK as a whole does?
Is she aware that leaving the UK will mean they don't get automatic membership of the EU and can't trade with the UK unless she strikes a trade deal with the UK; and the UK could charge Scotland excessive amounts of money to leave the UK; and will Scotland pay what they owe the UK back and all UK subsidies will end which Scotland heavily rely on? This is what you call cuting yourself off from the UK and EU big time at least the UK can trade with the UK either way, Scotland would have to start a fresh with the EU (as it has no trade deals with the EU, the UK does as a whole) eg become an EU member or trade under WTO rules to start with until a Scotland EU trade deal is struck. Oh I forgot Scotland isn't a member of the WTO either so would have to apply to join this as well as the UK as a whole is listed.
The North Sea Oil fields also don't belong to Scotland, nor do the Trident bases in Scotland and the UK fishing grounds around Scotland.
Will the 2nd Independence Referendum be legally binding or none binding?
I forgot the hard border there would be, no freedom of movement of people, goods or services with the EU and England and Northern Ireland. So going from Scotland to London or anywhere else in the England, Northern Ireland, Wales or Europe would mean having to be stopped to have there passports checked to make sure they have a visa and paid for taxes etc for the movement of goods.
Does leaving the UK still sound attractive to Scotland as they would be leaving the EU at the same time? The UK would still be members of the EU until the middle of 2019 or later, oh and Scotland will be cut out of any trade deal the UK gets with the EU if Scotland vote to leave the UK.
The UK may consider a free trade deal with Scotland after it has left but after the UK has negotiated a free trade deal with the EU, Australia, New Zealand, America etc, etc.
If you thought there's hard times ahead for the UK, there definitely would be for Scotland if they leave the UK and the EU by default. I haven't mentioned Scotland having no independent currency to trade with and economic risks and having no trade market status or passports that would just say Scotland on them and nothing else. Scotland would be in a worse situation than the rest of the UK.
Once again ignoring the negotiating process of trade deals and what they actually are. Great that 50 countries considering it considering many of those already have trade deals with the EU. Difference is many of those will be less preferential than the current deals with the EU. That means more negatives apply to the UK.
Actually the UK has lost ground to some other countries due to the currency but again, you'll ignore that.
Unless it's the UK companies which have nowhere near the growth of the multinationals on the FTSE. A fact you ignored last time I mentioned it, threatening to leave the thread again.
Important word highlighted. If UK wants to get rid of free movement however that will not be possible. You'll need border controls either on the NI/ireland border or UK ports etc. Ireland will still retain free movement and you don't want an influx of illegal immigrants do you Major gap in your understanding there I think.
More to the idea of pubs than simply drinking though. The loss of pubs as a social benefit is something which has a negative impact on society unfortunately. Most people who go to pubs socially are not a drain on the NHS.
The amount of BS in that video is amazing.
Prices were supposed to come down according to the leave campaign.
Again you keep pushing this despite the fact the FTSE is dependent not on UK business but internationals with UK companies not doing anywhere near as well as the FTSE 100.
Still find it amazing people are still hanging hopes on 2 basic things trade deals with other countries, ignoring what trade deals are, how they are negotiated and the fact the UK economy hasn't fallen flat being unable to show the benefits of Brexit in that growth. Oh I forget, McDonalds moving headquarters to UK, Snapchat apparantly doing the same. Both companies potentially looking at using the UK as a tax haven to avoid EU regulation, Both potentially having a single office in the UK as a administration office. I'm sure they will not arrange a backroom meeting with the government about tax prefering visible accountability. What generally happens in tax havens, rich get richer, poor get poorer.
Tell me stockwellcat. Did the UK government oppose TTIP at all? (Answer is no, they were perfectly happy to have it, not even ring fencing things like the NHS). EU want a trade deal oon their terms, US wants TTIP. Plenty of areas in the EU oppose it. Even the canadian version is watered down in the final agreement and it's on a trial basis.
I really don't think that is anything to smile about.
Want to really real working class leader?.Right now BBC4.Walesa.
Going to see if they put some original footage....
@Goblin Come back to the UK and take over as Leader of the Labour party. You'd do a much better job than Jer- Jer. In fact you'd do a much better job than most of the MPs in all parties. !
@cheekyscrip Missed it . . A good man !
Surely can be got online?
Good film. This is UK problem: Real leaders.
Like Havel, Mandela, Walesa or decent like Tusk.
People with more interest in the people than party donors.
Nowadays politicians are loudspeakers for party donors and they want to win election and get highest possible post for themselves.
No matter at what costs, what gamble , what lies.
Speeches ready for both camps. Like BJ or TM.
Tory donors do good business and rather have no EU watching their hands...
Labour is finished.
LibDems after Clegg?
People like Jo Cox do not rise through the ranks...
I think democracy is an illusion if really there is a choice of party donors sponsored puppets and clowns...
Cameron tried to please party donors, took a gamble knowing the costs...just to win election...
All he has done to get country out of 2008 crisis he lost and much more.
"Is there anyone but SNP with any integrity left?"
Yes, Caroline Lucas & the Green Party lol. Although I haven't got round to listening to Corbyn's speech myself, I trust Caroline Lucas to give a honest interpretation of it - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...een-party-brexit-caroline-lucas-a7518731.html.
I do understand why Labour are afraid. I live in a labour strong hold & I can tell you immigration is a big issue round here, labour are loosing traditional labour voters to UKIP because they believe labour are too soft on immigration. Corbyn is under pressure from all sides, but he should not have succumbed to the tories immigration rhetoric.
That said others are interpreting what he said differently. Saying he has set out a clear, anti-racist framework for post brexit migration policy.
Apparently he said this - & I cannot find fault with that.
We've got this brexitshambles an NHS in meltdown yet Corbyns speech appears to be the main topic - another convenient distraction. As someone else said; It would be great if our media could hold the GOVERNMENT to account rather than the opposition. http://www.thecanary.co/2017/01/10/...eech-theresa-mays-government-just-screwed-us/
Yes, maybe he is scared of losing votes to UKIP, but in doing so has alienated the other 65% of Labour voters such as myself who voted remain.
By succumbing to the Tories immigration rhetoric then stating a clear anti racist framework is confusing to say the least!
Caroline Lucas is absolutely spot on!
I'll have to see it. Funny though at the time how the UK media and politicians rightly praised Walesa yet were determined to fight the unions locally!
Nothing better tha free unions...in another country!!!
Poland owes a lot to Reagan and Thatcher. Without them negotiating Polish debts ( caused not by lazy Polish but by sending our products at bargain price or free to Soviet Union and Cuba etc...) and rubbish wasteful economic system.
Interesting that Walesa never clung to power and never succumbed to populism.
He also respected his academic advisers and listened to them.
Shows that one leader can unite intelligentsia and grass root workers.
At the same time the City is getting anxious.
Demanding three years transition period or else it will fall like Jenga ...
On small scale it is going on here...
"Dear Lord, the past year have been very tough for me. You've taken -
My favourite sportsman Muhammad Ali
My favourite actresses Debbie Reynolds and Jean Alexander
My favourite actor, Robert Vaughn
My favourite comedian, Victoria Wood
My favourite musicians, Rick Pafait and David Bowie
And finally, my favourite presenter Sir Terry Wogan
So Lord, I just wanted you to know that my favourite politicians are -
Tony Blair, Diane Abbot, Micheal Gove, Donald J Trump and that stupid cow from Scotland
(idea stolen from elsewhere)