Dual Champion Dogs

Discussion in 'Dog Chat' started by GoldenShadow, Feb 20, 2010.


  1. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    I believe these are dogs who have won in the show ring and working trials?

    Are there quite a lot of these dogs, and is it quite difficult for dogs to do well in both spheres?

    Thanks :)
     
  2. Fuzzbugs!x

    Fuzzbugs!x PetForums VIP

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    We know quite alot of people who have fantastic mals in the show ring and in the rig :). Not sure about other breeds though. x
     
  3. davehyde

    davehyde Banned

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    i wouldnt say its easy as the different disciplines require different qualities.

    conformation for showing and ability for working.

    a good dual champ is hard to find.

    a bit like a good woman roflmao.

    go easy girls lol.
     
  4. Jess2308

    Jess2308 PetForums VIP

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    I know of a few dual champs :)

    In theory it shouldnt be difficult (well, anymore difficult than making up a champion in the show/working world which is difficult in itself lol) as the dog in the show ring should be capable of doing the work it was bred for... Of course, the show world tends to go through "fads" of what is desirable which makes it more difficult!
     
  5. rona

    rona Guest

    Dual champions are few and far between. It takes a lot of time and dedication to achieve just one champion title. To achieve two is quite remarkable.
    The majority of people who manage this are full time in the dog world, so can devote the time needed to train and compete
     
  6. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    It depends on the breed some are easier and more dual purpose than others. It also takes a lot of work to achieve
     
  7. Jenny Olley

    Jenny Olley PetForums VIP

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    Dual champions are not necessarily breed & working trials, it can be breed & obedience, or obedience & working trials, I assume also agility, I know of an ausssie shepherd who is dual breed & trials, and a few others that were obedience & working trials.
     
  8. Nicky10

    Nicky10 PetForums VIP

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    True but even obedience/agility championships are hard to get
     
  9. Jenny Olley

    Jenny Olley PetForums VIP

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    i agree gaining championship status in one is difficult enough, all i was pointing out is that dual champions can be a combination of any of these kennel club licenced events
     
  10. leashedForLife

    leashedForLife PetForums VIP

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    hey, tins! :--)
    i cannot speak to the number in the UK or Europe, but they are not common in the US, and in *some* breeds it is exceptionally difficult to get a breed-ring Ch; in others, it is very complex, trying to get a working-title. :confused:

    dual champion labradors - Google Search
    Labs are among the breeds where getting a dual-champ is very hard - but they are also among the breeds with the MOST Dual-Champs. there is a show-type that is popular, yet there are 6 body + head Types within the Lab-breed - and 4 of the 6 types have a more or less difficult time getting a conformation-title, with field-type dogs having frankly zero chance of ever achieving a Ch.

    this is a type Kerrybrook Kennels Dual Purpose Labradors - Chris Wincek that does not appeal to me at all; cream-colored British-type Flabradors... Talbot, Ch. at 18-MO - look at him in show-condition! :eek: IMO he looks like a Depression-era hog, ready for slaughter, ye gods...

    below Talbot is Kerrybrooks Vince, MH in a head-shot face-on;
    i do not like the mastiff-type flat breadth of backskull, tab-like ears folded down like page-corners on a blocky head, blunt foreface without much taper, bull-neck with wattles, football-pad shoulders, etc. these are HEAVY dogs, who tend to age fast, break down early (joints), and will eat themselves to lifelong blimphood by 2-YO, if not stringently monitored.
    but... this British type is currently popular in the ring :( and has been for several decades.

    for comparison, Justamere Ranch Labrador Pedigree Research -
    that dog was born in 1939; today, no one would ever take him into a breed ring;
    the spectators would laugh themselves clear out of their lawn-chairs and roll on the floor in hysterics.
    in 1942, this dog was elected to the Lab Hall of Fame.
    at that time, working ability meant more than a blocky head and beefy body. :rolleyes:

    the 6 types of Labs can be seen best here - LABRADORNET - Labrador Typecasting
    WATCH the dog at the top of the page morph from 1960 to 2000 type, and then 2004 National Champ; its pretty horrifying. :nonod:

    Google prompted me with *dual champion*... ? Brittany or Viszla? - but no other breeds, which means that not-enuf ppl have requested info on Dual-Champs in other breeds to have any other categories to suggest.

    to get a breed-ring AKC-Champion title, i must accrue POINTS American Kennel Club - Point Schedule
    i must accumulate 15 points total; under at least 2 judges, and at least FIVE of them must be at a major-show.
    say i own a Lab, in the northeastern USA - here is the District 2 schedule of points for Retriever breeds...
    ________________________________________________________________
    ................................................1 POINT.......2........3...........4.............5 POINTS
    ....................................................D..B.....D...B....D....B.....D....B......D......B

    Retrievers (Ches) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2..2......4..5......6..7........8...12......13..20
    Retrievers (Curly) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2..2.....3..3.......4..4.........5...6.........6..9
    Retrievers (Flat) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2..2..... 4..5.......5..7.........8...9.....14..13
    Retrievers (Golden) . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4..4....10..12....16..20....24..29....39..46
    Retrievers (Lab) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2..4....11..14....19..23....37..56....70..118
    ____________________________________________________

    the difficulty of earning each point is a function of breed-popularity and population - there are more people with Labs in Penna than there are in Montana.
    so my Penna-bitch would have to earn 5-points against One-Hundred-and-Eighteen other bitches in the ring - which is only possible at a breed specialty, and type comes heavily into play. regional-differences, like smaller red-gold Goldens in the New-England states, vs cream-colored ENORMOUS Goldens in southern-Calif, will doom many contenders.

    OTOH if instead of a Lab, i owned a Curly-Coat, i could win a major (5-points) with only 9 bitches in the ring! Way, Way, easier to win... except Curlies are exceptionally rare. :huh: assembling 9 bitches in the same place requires planning, forethought, and often co-operation with Ur competitors. ;) now THAT requires genuine good-sportsmanship - calling up the owner of a potential-rival to ask if they would enter a particular show, to boost the entry numbers for a Major-opportunity. :D

    Beagles - many from the early 1900s from UK-stock -
    Dual Champions

    Dual Aussies dual champion Australian shepherds - Google Search

    there are also Non-Field or Non-Working DUALs -
    like Agility, Weight-pull, Flyball, Disc-Dog, Freestyle and other k9-sports.
    dual Dobes Awards/Statistics/Titles | Dual/Triple Champions

    U can be certified (owner / handler And Dog) as a therapy-team, too.
    there are plenty of ways to achieve stardom for Ur dog, and all of them can be great fun; but working-types and show-types are continuing IMO to diverge, which is a great pity.

    personally, i would prefer that ONLY dogs with at least one working-title or sport-title be bred at all, even if they are not conformation-champs; a CGC at the very minimum, before the dog is allowed to contribute to a registerable litter, would at the very least, ensure a decent temp.
    but then - i;m a picky bitch! :001_tt2: and no apologies... :p

    cheers,
    --- terry
     
    #10 leashedForLife, Feb 20, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2010
  11. Freyja

    Freyja PetForums VIP

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    In gundogs duel champions are full champions other wise they are either show champions or field trials champion.

    Zoe's grandsire is a full champion.
     
  12. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    Thanks guys that's really interesting!

    The one I know of is a working dog and the owner said she just happens to be a very good looking dog too!
     
  13. Freyja

    Freyja PetForums VIP

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    Oops wrong one I've just got Zoe's pedigree out and its actually her grandmother that is the full champion.
     
  14. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    Wooo girl power :p

    The one I know is a she too :cool:
     
  15. GoldenShadow

    GoldenShadow PetForums VIP

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    :001_tt1:

    Well done for finding hat Rona! Wow, he looks gorgeous! Rupert has some Westley dogs far back in his pedigree, they are in the 6th gen of his pedigree. Had a look on that site and Eng Irish Dual CH David of Westley's full sister is in the pedigree too! Shame they are all so far back :( There is Simon of Westley in there and a few other Westley's. All on his sire's side, his dam's side has Holways in it.

    I love the Westley's! Them and the Holway's are just :001_tt1:

    So nice to see a dual champ golden too!
     
    #16 GoldenShadow, Feb 21, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2010
  16. rona

    rona Guest

    It was a picture of that dog that helped me fall in love with the breed, along with meeting a special little bitch dumped in kennels :)
     
  17. Bijou

    Bijou PetForums VIP

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    Ob/ show Ch Alcyon Comet was a dual champion Groenendael and I believe that the Vanistica Kennel have bred both obedience and show champions from the same litter - in some breeds it's not that the dogs cannot still work but that the owners simply don't have the time to train and campaign to the extent needed to a title in more than one discipline.


    ..and whilst I agree that some some working ability is good before breeding I also think it works both ways and that working dogs should be able to win in the conformation ring as well - I have seen some truly horrendous examples of working Malinois in my own breed not to mention working Springers twith fronts you could drive a bus though - if it does'nt look like the breed it's supposed to be it should'nt be bred from !
     
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