Originally Posted by Chillinator

You're absolutely right, the profits come first in these places, the welfare of the fish comes somewhere further down the ladder, if at all. It really is a sorry sight to see these fish die in such large numbers.

I have read that these 'fish spas' can help to improve circulation in the limbs of diabetes patients. You may have heard stories of diabetes patients having whole limbs amputated due to a lack of oxygenated blood. However, no research has been done into this and Diabetes UK isn't currently advocating it.

Originally Posted by Fishy person

As most of you are aware there is a growing trend for people to stick their feet in a tank full of fish, not just any fish but Garra rufa fish a member of the carp family originating from Turkey. I have no problem with people putting their feet into a tank full of fish as long as they are cleaned before they enter the tank. My concern is that some of these tanks are not designed to hold upto 200 fish in such a small body of water. I have now visited several establishments and looked at the filter systems basically there are two systems I have come accross the first is a canister filter bought off the shelf designed for much lower fish stocking levels. The second is a sump type add on filter medium housed in a chamber measureing around 150mm x 150mm x 250mm deep. Surely this should not be acceptable, I would have thought that the filter media should be at least 5-6 times more to cope with the 200 plus fish it has to handle. Speaking to the owners of these establishments they are unaware of conditions they are subjecting these fish to. All apear to have UV clarifiers/sterilisers fitted but looking at flow rates they can only operate as clarifiers but owners not knowing how they work told me they were sterilisers. Does anyone out there have more information on their local Garra Rufa shop and details regarding the filter system they operate. Please note I'm not for or against I just want information to hopfully enlighten and educate the people that are using these fish. I look forward to your comments

Originally Posted by Chillinator

Your plans sound better, but I still can't condone this as a business. The stocking densities are still sky high, and there's no mention of the total volume of biological filtration media to cope with waste.

Oviously nobody can stop you from opening shop, however if there are just a couple of things I would suggest, they would be carry out several large water changes whenever possible and always try to buy the biggest tanks possible.

Originally Posted by Fishy person

It is said that the fish do improve psoriasis and improve other ailments which i must say if i suffered from psoriasis as a friend of mine does then i would probably try the treatment. As i said from the start i am neither for or against using garra rufa but i would like to see much better conditions in which they are kept.
I have kept fish for over 40 years cold water, tropical and marine I have bred live bearing and egg laying fish, I have designed filter systems for large koi ponds, water features, fish tanks and natural swimming pools it just annoy's me that these people are being lazy and not taking the right care and time to give these little fish the best enviroment they can.

Originally Posted by Polsander

Hi There,

I wonder if anyone may be able to help me. I am an environmental health officer and along with my colleague an animal welfare officer we are respnsibble for enforcing health and safety and animal welfare in premises providing garra rufa for skin treatments. We both have concerns regarding the conditions in which these fish may be kept, such as stocking densities, water quality, filtration use of UV etc . i would be very grateful for any information members may be able to provide.

thank you in advance.

Polsander

Originally Posted by Chillinator

I would estimate that the average fish spa tank holds something in the region of 75-100 litres of water before displacement. When connected to a centralized filter, the water between all of the tanks would transmit potentially harmful bacteria, unless the water is filtered by a UV sterilizer. However UV sterilizers aren't guaranteed to kill all bacteria, and the effectiveness of UV tubes diminishes over a period of several months.

The original post on this thread has quite rightly pointed out that the flow rates passing through the entire centralized sytem would be out of the limits for a UV sterilizer, leading the OP to believe that they are in fact Ultra-violet clarifiers. UV clarifers are much less powerful than UV sterilizers, as they are marketed by pond equipment retailers as intended for killing algal cells. Obviously some checks would have to be carried out to positively establish what type of UV devices are being used.

Each tank would hold anything between 50-120 fish for this 'treatment' to take effect. For the estimated volumes that I stated above, this would of course mean that the tanks are overstocked which would result in a great deal of water pollution due to such a high bioload placed on the filter and the concentration of nitrogenous waste produced not only by fish metabolism, but also any flakes of dead skin that collect in the bottom of the tanks.

It would be perfectly reasonable to say that these establishments take very little or no time to actively test the water by any means for pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. While none of these factors will affect the health of any customers, high concentrations of pollutants ultimately cause the fish to contract diseases and eventually die. Going by the number of dead fish I've seen, I am not sure if the corpses are removed before they have a chance to start decomposingg. Fish are known carriers of Tubercolosis and Salmonella which can potentially be transmitted to humans. Even the water itself can carry TB.

Originally Posted by Fishy person

I have looked at the problem with the filters locally I have seen a couple of salon's have been a sump type filter in around 100ltr tanks with around 2ltrs of filter medium in a central chamber of a three chamber filter whilst there I informed the owner how to boost the filter efficency to cope with the level of fish she had in the tank around 150, 2inch fish. Thinking of her original filter and stocking levels works out at 75 fish=150 inches of fish per 1ltr of filter media. even with a UV steriliser working properly with the correct flow rates it is still a disaster to happen. Setting myself some boundries making a single unit 1000mm x 500mm 150 50mm fish using my filter design which holds a minimum 30ltrs of media this bring's the stocking level down to 5 fish= 10 inches of fish per 1ltr of filter media. I have asked one salon if I build a tank system for them to try it out, so I can monitor how effective it would be, they have agreed. I'll keep you posted as to the results. Meanwhile I have spoken to my local authority they have asked me to write up some guidelines and specifications as to what they should be looking for so they can set a standard. Interesting stuff I am amazed how deep I'm getting with this. Looks like I'll be busy for a while.

Originally Posted by DJNB

Hi everyone. Newbie to the forum and I’ll explain what we would like to do – it would be good if anyone has any advice and recommendations.

We intend to open a garra rufa spa. We are looking at 6 tanks each with a volume of 220 litres. Beneath each tank there will be a reserve containing 100 litres, with sump connection and filter systems capable of handling 1,500 litres per hour and a UV filter sterilizer to handle the same volume. We are thinking of 125 fish per tank, water at 30 degrees C and a pH of 7…after each 15 minute treatment, no clients would enter the same tank again for at least another 15 minutes. Additional food in the evenings and in the morning would be in algae pill form…

Basically, we want to improve drastically on the welfare of the fish that you find in your average salon where the are crammed into the small prefabricated tanks. Any thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated. Criticism is welcome as we want to see what areas we can improve. But to start with…do you experts think we are heading along the right lines?

Cheers.

Originally Posted by fish spa

Its difficult to know what size of filter and UV steriliser to buy until you try it out! I was told by a few of the spa manufacturers that the 10-12 Watt UV ones were sufficient for upto 120 litre tanks, but after doing some of my own research decided to buy one about 5 times more powerful as they are only about £30 more each, and are more likely to sterilise rather than just clarify the water !

As a Podiatrist, and operator of a fish spa, I'm in the process of compiling a specific foot education course for other operators of the fish spas. I am meeting with Environmental health next week to confirm exactly what information needs to be covered. I think eventually this kind of course will be compulsory for all operators!
Don't take risks!!

Originally Posted by fish spa

How often would you do say a 10% water change? Some people recommend once a week, some say do it daily!
Also how often would you recommend the canister type filters to be rinsed. And how long should you leave before doing the first filter rinse on a new system. I know not to use chlorinated water for this!
Thanks

Originally Posted by fish spa

Would you recommend 1 litre of water per average size fish in a 100L tank?
Thanks