First Marine Tank

SteveLawrence · #1 (**permalink**) 04-05-2009, 09:05 PM

Hi All,

I am buying a 22" Wide X 18 " 25 " High Deep Marine Tank

Its called a Interpet River/Reef 94 L

How many fish could you put in this and can you mix fish . LIke sharks with Delicate fish, Sea horses Etc ?

I dont want to over crowd it .

Also being my first tank how hard is it to keep everything alive, Dont want to kill expensive fish ?

I also live in a very very warm flat even without heating on . Will this effect the tank . ?

Cheers Steve

Pleccy · #2 (**permalink**) 04-05-2009, 09:40 PM

Have you done your research? Marine fishkeeping is quite difficult and if you don't do your homework you could end up making huge mistakes. The secret to keeping everything alive is one thing: RESEARCH!

Most sharks will grow far too large for such a tank and in my honest opinion they shouldn't be kept in captivity except for research purposes. Many species are also on the CITES list of endangered species. Seahorses are also fairly difficult to keep and you should start out with something easier until you attempt to keep them.

Overheating can be a problem, the Interpet River reef tanks have closed in hoods. If you intend to keep corals then due to the lighting stick to the hardy soft species such as Sarcophyton, Sinularia, Xenia and Lobophyton sp. . SPS hard corals such as Acropora are very demanding in terms of light, water quality, water movement and calcium, they also aren't very tolerant of temperature fluctuations. Most low-light invertebrates such as shrimps, snails and crabs should be fine.

Fishyfins · #3 (**permalink**) 06-05-2009, 08:48 AM

marine fish are not so difficult as people make out. indeed, i have kept them both side by side for many years, and find that my marine tanks keep far more stable and clean than my freshwater tanks, with much less maintainence. ive also worked both sides of the trade for many years, and this is not just me that discovers this.

as Pleccy says, the trick to it is research. the main problems with marine tanks are that its very expensive, and you can cut no corners. everything must be done following the book to the letter. the best advice i can offer on pre-tank set up is do not skimp on live rock! the more live rock you put into your tank, the more stable the environment is gonna be. live rock is a very expensive thing, and most people skimp on it early on, and then run into problems. for any tank, live rock will probably be the biggest outlay, for your size, perhaps between £300-£500, but this is unavoidable really, if you want success.

the other thing you need to be thinking about are reefcleaners. these are all the hermit crabs, snails, and other small creatures that inhabit the reef, and clean up all the rubbish in there, and keep the tank stable. no reef tank can be without these, and again, seccess means you need a fair few of them. for your size tank, you will probably be looking 30-40 of each at least, and again, this will be a major outlay. there are other reefcleaners as well as these, such as bristlestars, some species of crab, and some shrimp. bristlestars are good as long as you stay away from the big green ones (they have an undeserved reputation as fish killers, but the main problem is they grow huge!). if you can, stay away from most species of starfish, as they are delicate creatures, and urchins, as they eat benefitial algaes, and destroy rockwork.

now, what i am about to say will go against everything you will read and be told, but im gonna say it anyway, because it is something i firmy believe in. DO NOT USE A PROTEIN SKIMMER!!!! these pieces of equipment are probably the biggest waste of money in the marine trade. they certainly do a good job, but they do far too good a job, and remove all the good stuff from the water, as well as the bad. this needs to be replaced if you are to be successful, and is expensive and can be dangerous to do so if not done correctly. i have been keeping marine fish for a good 5 or 6 years now, and i have never used a skimmer on any of my tanks, and have never had a single problem. indeed, my father has always sworn by skimmers, and is constanrtly having problems. the one time the skimmer was taken offline, was the only time the tank has been stable. but this isnt to say you dont need someting to do the job. there is a wonderful product out there called purigen, made by seachem, that, when added to the filter, does the exact same job, but leaving the good stuff in the water. i have used this for many years, with excelent results. it just needs changing every few months. some people say that skimmers are needed, but i have proved this wrong time and time again.

now, onto your fish selection. neither the sharks or seahorses are a good idea for your size tank. as Pleccy mentioned, sharks would simply grow far too large. seahorses are very delicate creatures that require specialist feeding, and tanks with good filtration, yet low flow rate, which can be hard to accomplish. the other golden rule with seahorses is that they must be kept away from other fish. they cannot be mixed with other fish, period! instead, for your tank, perhaps a pair of clownfish as a start (common clowns), as these are seen to be the easiest marines to keep. your tank could hold approximatly 4 or 5 small to medium (around 5") sized fish. other options include damsels (though these can get aggressive), dottybacks, smaller species of wrasse, perhaps a tang (though these have special feeding requirements as well). there are many choices avaialable to you. perhaps go to your dealer, look around the tanks, jot down the names of the fish you like, and post them here. we will be able to say which can and cant live in your sort of tank

so yeah, i think thats everything i needed to say, lol. if you require any more help or advice, just ask

Pleccy · #4 (**permalink**) 06-05-2009, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishyfins

now, what i am about to say will go against everything you will read and be told, but im gonna say it anyway, because it is something i firmy believe in. DO NOT USE A PROTEIN SKIMMER!!!! these pieces of equipment are probably the biggest waste of money in the marine trade. they certainly do a good job, but they do far too good a job, and remove all the good stuff from the water, as well as the bad. this needs to be replaced if you are to be successful, and is expensive and can be dangerous to do so if not done correctly. i have been keeping marine fish for a good 5 or 6 years now, and i have never used a skimmer on any of my tanks, and have never had a single problem. indeed, my father has always sworn by skimmers, and is constanrtly having problems. the one time the skimmer was taken offline, was the only time the tank has been stable. but this isnt to say you dont need someting to do the job. there is a wonderful product out there called purigen, made by seachem, that, when added to the filter, does the exact same job, but leaving the good stuff in the water. i have used this for many years, with excelent results. it just needs changing every few months. some people say that skimmers are needed, but i have proved this wrong time and time again.

I agree with you on that one, I used to be a 'skimmer addict' however I've now been lured over to the natural side of reefkeeping which basically means the Leng sy Ecosystem method. It's cheap, effective and does away with equipment which simply takes up too much space!

SteveLawrence · #5 (**permalink**) 06-05-2009, 11:52 PM

Thanks guys , Thats really great info . Yes I think its a rich mans hoobby . I actually bought a 250 red sea plug and play fish tank tonight on line expecting the delivery within 2-3 days as promised to recieve an email sying they cant deliver for a month . So I canceled this but I think a good tank will help a novice quite considerably . I find fish tanks to very relaxing and yes quite an intelligent and responsible hobby. But then they are so facinating colourful and full of life . I would hate to harm a fish by not doing research which is why i asked for advise . Thanks for being so helpfull. Its great to speak to people with real experiance of marine tank fish keeping

What facinating is the corals can sting each other and eat each other also and you cant exactly say you naughtly piece of coral dont do it again. So yes I probably will be asking for lots of advise . Having said that my cat takes no notice either.

I quite like the orange and white clowns and also this funny little fellow

http://www.tropicalfish4u.co.uk/Fish.../YellowBoxfish

Iam not sure about ordering live fish on line though and having them sent in the post . I think you could get caught like that . In Manchester where I live we have an aquarium called Oasis . Very expensive but you get to see the fish and ask questions also.

I am not sure if the red sea tanks are suitable for fish or really designed for corals only . I seem to have spent thousands in my mind ready and the red sea tank was £1299.00 new but not sure where I could second hand one from which could be an option as a starter fish/coral keeper.

I am very keen on the idea however but wonder what I will do if was to go on a holiday . Iam not sure my friends would be as caring for the fish as I would be . Perhaps one should join a fish carers support group or something to look after peoples fish when one has to leave residence for any length of time .

Ill have a look for all the fish youve mentioned when I recover from the stress of trying to get my money back. Typical impulse buyer

I live in a small very warm 14th storey flat where heat rises up from flats below even with all the heating off so a cooler may also be something I need and not sure what to get for this size tank .

It seems very complicted to get all the right fish with right corals so I will start very slowly and work precusiouly at it. I dont know I could get emotional over a fish but the expense is certainly very emotional. I would certianly be very dissapointed if I lost beautifull fish. The stars are beautifull but they are carnivors I believe .

Pity about the seahorses . It seems their are many restrictions to keeping a happy environment so building a beautifull aquarium is something to be quite proud off, I would think. Ill but some books first and start the research . Eventually get the tank and rocks and build from there.

Thats £2,000 to start with isnt it ? . MMMM

Ill have to put up with my crapy lounge for little bit longer .

No wonder these aquariums are rubbing their hands together at the site of a customer.

Never mind thats the bug you get I guess

Thanks for your help

SteveLawrence · #6 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009, 07:06 AM

SteveLawrence · #7 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009, 07:12 AM

Pleccy · #8 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLawrence

Thanks guys , Thats really great info . Yes I think its a rich mans hoobby . I actually bought a 250 red sea plug and play fish tank tonight on line expecting the delivery within 2-3 days as promised to recieve an email sying they cant deliver for a month . So I canceled this but I think a good tank will help a novice quite considerably . I find fish tanks to very relaxing and yes quite an intelligent and responsible hobby. But then they are so facinating colourful and full of life . I would hate to harm a fish by not doing research which is why i asked for advise . Thanks for being so helpfull. Its great to speak to people with real experiance of marine tank fish keeping

What facinating is the corals can sting each other and eat each other also and you cant exactly say you naughtly piece of coral dont do it again. So yes I probably will be asking for lots of advise . Having said that my cat takes no notice either.

I quite like the orange and white clowns and also this funny little fellow

Yellow Boxfish, Mail Order Yellow Boxfish delivered to your door - AquaticLifeDirect.co.uk

Iam not sure about ordering live fish on line though and having them sent in the post . I think you could get caught like that . In Manchester where I live we have an aquarium called Oasis . Very expensive but you get to see the fish and ask questions also.

I am not sure if the red sea tanks are suitable for fish or really designed for corals only . I seem to have spent thousands in my mind ready and the red sea tank was £1299.00 new but not sure where I could second hand one from which could be an option as a starter fish/coral keeper.

I am very keen on the idea however but wonder what I will do if was to go on a holiday . Iam not sure my friends would be as caring for the fish as I would be . Perhaps one should join a fish carers support group or something to look after peoples fish when one has to leave residence for any length of time .

Ill have a look for all the fish youve mentioned when I recover from the stress of trying to get my money back. Typical impulse buyer

I live in a small very warm 14th storey flat where heat rises up from flats below even with all the heating off so a cooler may also be something I need and not sure what to get for this size tank .

It seems very complicted to get all the right fish with right corals so I will start very slowly and work precusiouly at it. I dont know I could get emotional over a fish but the expense is certainly very emotional. I would certianly be very dissapointed if I lost beautifull fish. The stars are beautifull but they are carnivors I believe .

Pity about the seahorses . It seems their are many restrictions to keeping a happy environment so building a beautifull aquarium is something to be quite proud off, I would think. Ill but some books first and start the research . Eventually get the tank and rocks and build from there.

Thats £2,000 to start with isnt it ? . MMMM

Ill have to put up with my crapy lounge for little bit longer .

No wonder these aquariums are rubbing their hands together at the site of a customer.

Never mind thats the bug you get I guess

Thanks for your help

I remember when I first started marine fishkeeping, questions, questions, questions...

The tank will be fine for fish and corals, however you can't put as many fish into a marine tank as you can in a freshwater aquarium. The ocean is a huge expanse of water so forget about being capable of replicating a fully-fledged reef aquarium which looks like something out of the Blue planet. While you can make it look realistic and interesting there are limitations.

The boxfish which you have mentioned in the link isn't a good idea, these fish grow too large for your tank. Oasis aquatics is very good, ordering fish over the net may be convenient however the fish may not arrive in one piece. Marine fish and corals aren't very cheap, so the prices at Oasis are pretty much standard.

Marine fishkeeping isn't that easy.

You will also need the following...

Refractometer (for measuring salinity) £30
Salt (choose a good reef-grade salt) £50 for a 20kg bucket
Reverse osmosis water (you can't use ordinary tapwater in marine aquariums)
Carbon and rowaphos (for chemical filtration) £15-30
Food £15 (you will of course have to replace it as it runs out)
Net £2-3
Buckets (for water changes)
Additional pumps (usually the water movement in off the shelf aquariums needs to be upgraded for marine use)
Live rock (biological filtration) £8-12 per kilo, you will need approximately 1kg of rock per 10 litres of water.
Algae magnet £5
Media bags £4-5
Additives for calcium and magnesium £20
Test kits (for pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate, KH and calcium) £40

As you can see, this isn't a cheap hobby, you are easily looking at around an extra £300-400 worth of accessories, and this doesn't even include the fish.

Pleccy · #9 (**permalink**) 07-05-2009, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLawrence

You can't put all of those fish in at the same time, otherwise you would have a miniature ecological nightmare.

These would be my own recommendations out of your list...

2x Percula or Common clownfish (Amphiprion ocellaris), larger species such as the Maroon clownfish (Premnas bicolor) can be very aggressive.
1-2x Spotted cardinalfish

Along with... (assuming you are buying the larger Red Sea aquarium)

1x Yellow watchman goby
1x Dwarf angel (Centropyge sp.), some species can nip corals however one of the safest species is the Coral beauty.
1x Pseudochromis sp. or Royal Gramma (Gramma loreto)

Recommended corals...

Sarcophyton sp. (The toadstool and Leather finger corals belong to this genus)
Red mushrooms (quite easy to keep)
Spotted mushrooms
Lobophyton sp.
Sinularia sp. (other finger corals)
Xenia sp.
Ricordea sp.

Inverts:

Shrimp species such as the Cleaner shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis) and the Peppermint shrimp (Lysmata wurdmanii)

Blue leg hermit crabs

Linckia sp. starfish (however these do need good water quality)

Astraea snails

Other little critters which appear on the live rock, such as copepods, feather dusters, small crabs, polyps etc. Keep your eyes peeled for a common pest anemone known as Aiptasia.

Possibly an Emerald mithrax crab to control bubble algae.

NOT recommended for reasons which I have listed below...

Fish...

Yellowtail Damselfish- Quite aggressive

Yellow Boxfish- Too big

Facula butterflyfish- Too big and these do require a constant food supply of sponges, which can be very hard to maintain.

Longnose butterflyfish- Too big and the same dietary requirements as above.

Green mandarin- Too difficult, these rarely last long in most tanks due to lack of a suitable food supply, notably Copepods.

Foxface- Too big and these are venomous.

Powder blue tang- Too big

Sailfin tang- Too big

Yellow tang- Too big

Clown Triggerfish- Too big and quite aggressive.

Corals...

Sponges- Difficult to keep.

SPS hard corals- Quite difficult to keep and very demanding of light, calcium, water quality etc.

Inverts...

Bulb anemones- Very few anemones last long in aquariums.

Boxer crabs- Can eat small fish.

And finally...

The mossballs, these are freshwater aquarium plants. Put them inside a marine tank and they won't last very long.

SteveLawrence · #10 (**permalink**) 11-05-2009, 06:04 PM

Hey thanks for that luke ,

Ive been out of action , I got my money back for the tank so I can think more seriously about which tank to get now.

Yes Iam certainly going think long and hard here , because the dream and the reality is very different , But i will persue with your advises one way or another .. Thats great info.

It might be some time before I get started I think . But I guess the info will stay here for when I do and also be a great help for others too

Cheeers

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