I saw the link for this on another thread and am v interested.

Never heard of it before and I think Heidi and I could have great fun as she loves learning new things.

Being a bit dim now but does it have to involve clicker training. I have never used one. There is probably a simple way round it but at the moment I'm darned if I can think of one.

No doubt I have lined myself up to look a prize idiot but hey ho, in my case common sense is the least common of all the senses

Did you see this video? YouTube - Free Shaping with an Australian CattleDog | AskDrYin.com

Most people use a clicker, but Dr Yin just says 'yes' as a marker for 'that right there was perfect'. A clicker is more precise, but also requires very good timing from you!

Your dog is going to learn by trail-and-error what it is you want from him. Break down the idea you have in mind in small steps and reward them, upping the criteria as the dog progresses. So the dog touches the box - good. He then touches the box with his paw - good. Nose touches now no longer 'work' - right, dog understands that the paw touch is the way forward. He'll try more in that direction now.

Basically you are the treat machine, and the dog is going to learn how to activate you - and you keep moving the 'button', the behaviour that works, toward the goal you have in mind.

Edit to add: an extremely educational thing to do (which I keep intending to do but can't find someone nuts enough to do it with) is to play a shaping game with another person - take a goal behaviour in mind and without any verbal or gesture communication, only the click, let them figure out by trail-and-error what you want. Then reverse the game so you're the one being trained. I saw a video on this a while ago and can't find it now, sadly.

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It's not easy for a monkey to think like a dog

get

Clicker is so easy, put a cardboard box on the floor when your dog goes and snifs it click the clicker and reward her, ask her touch help her understand what you are asking there are so many you can do try the box first then come back for more good luck x

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Thank you so much. I will try the "yes".

I used to do natural horsemanship with my horse and I often found breaking that down into small stages and rewarding worked so I have an idea.

Just got to try and put it into practice - should be fun

I do free shaping with my horse as we both find it fun. Today I laid out a square of jumping poles and wanted to shape him to get into it, and then that I could send him into it from a distance.

I made a goof early on though and accidentally rewarded him for clawing at one of the poles (I thought he was going to put his foot inside the box and clicked a little too early) He then spent the next ten minutes clawing, kicking and shoving the poles all over the place

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It's not easy for a monkey to think like a dog

OMG We do this all the time in our house, other half and I decide a task and we click our daughter, shaping what we want, then she decides with one of us something else and we 'shape' that = its a very enlightening experience with a five year old and teaches you an awful lot about timing!!!

Does this mean we are nuts??

Years ago I used to do a similar exercise in my puppy classes with two people going out the room. The class would choose something i.e. stand on a particular chair. One person comes in and all we can say is 'good boy/girl' etc., but only positives. Doesn't take them long to work it out.

Then the other person then comes in, but this time we can only use negatives ie. 'NO' 'Wrong!' etc., within a few minutes the person is unable to move, terrified they are going to get shouted at...

Try it!

Kate

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Just because I can't talk, doesn't mean you can't understand me

I rather love this example with a lion as well!

YouTube - Lion Head Turn | AskDrYin.com

It's great what using operant conditioning in a positive way can achieve with almost any animal, even fish!

YouTube - Operant conditioning in Goldfish

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OH caught me watching the video and decided he was going to use the tactics to get her to bring her slipper to him. I was v good and bit my tongue. All he did was confuse her and in the end she just thought it was a get treats from dad game gggrrrrrrrrrrrrr men!!. I have to be greatful that he takes an interest and loves her dearly as initially he was dead against having her D

Tomorrow is another day and I will have her to myself!!

That's a bit over ambitious to start with, yes! It's more a skill for the handler to learn than for the animal.

As for slippers, be careful there - you may end up with a dog that's going to gnaw on slippers at every opportunity because you're rewarded mouthing a slipper! Putting the behaviour on cue and then letting it stop happen un-cued is the very hardest part of this, and usually never works completely, so be sure you don't teach them anything that you will mind occasionally being offered when you don't ask.

For instance, I taught my horse to pick up a towel with his mouth and shake it around, and he now gleefully picks up every coat, towel, saddlecloth and other fabric item that is hanging over the railing, in the hope that it sets off the treat machine

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It's not easy for a monkey to think like a dog

Arwenlune you make me laugh re your horse, mine was exactly the same. The old saying "be careful what you wish for" springs to mind.

Yes, I will take it steady tomorrow (if we are both in the right frame of mine)and try to set up something v simple just to get her used to "yes" and leave it on a good note to build on.

Re "the slipper" that was another of OH's brainwaves. As a pup she loved slippers so when I got a new pair he gave her one of my old ones, against my better judgement BUT she knows and respects that is hers and doesn't touch ours.

Off to bed now to dream "shaping games"