The dogged debate about training methods - The Boston Globe

the comments are the icing on the cake, LOL...
Cesar has never done ANYthing to hurt a dog - he loves dogs!
if the various dogs he has half-asphyxiated could only speak English, i daresay we would hear a differing opinion...

snorting over my coffee,
--- terry

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Never a truer word spoken.


ETA - thing is, it goes further than ignorance with some people. Personally I can't see why, if a kind method works at least as well as (it usually works better) a confrontational method, ANYONE would choose the latter. But you still hear what amounts to "I'd still rather my dog did what I want because he HAS to, not because he wants to". Mind-boggling and somewhat depressing.

I love the way he proudly announces his lack of education

“My school was animals, not books,’’

This joker thinks ignorance is a desirable trait.

You hear that a lot though, or variations on it - and not just from dog people. It generally translates as "I've made a few observations, decided to take them as fact, and can't be arsed to study properly".

Thank God doctors have to train formally, otherwise the country would be littered with pseudo-GP's who base their expertise on the fact that they played a lot of Operation as kid

man, i hear that! ...
as a middle-school, high-school and college-student, i was frequently forced to listen to diatribes
against the anthropomorphism of non-human species.

Quote:

the problem was that to accommodate these lackwits with their bizarre phobia of acknowledging *any!* similarity whatever between humans and other species, U would virtually have to posit that humans originated in another Solar System... not just on some planet other than the 3rd from our local sun, and arriving here thousands of years ago, to further evolve on this planet.

myself in the meanwhile, having observed many animals under many diff circs (wildlife that i rehabbed with the help of a local vet, livestock on our farm and other farms, stock at auctions, other farms, and grange fairs, pets of many species - cats, dogs, birds, bunnies, ferrets, and etcetera...)
i had ZERO doubt that non-humans possessed emotions.

they may not experience some version of romantic love, + i doubt they have a deeply frustrated desire to write passionate
sonnets in iambic pentameter... but that they are deeply attached to their friends, their babies, and their familiar
surroundings was something i could not deny. that they fear pain, abrupt change, novelty; that they are also curious,
and given safe opportunities to explore new things, they can also enjoy novelty.

i think it is troubling and indicative that we have over 60 years of data on punishment - it is the single Most-Studied subject
in behavioral science, my word! yet we have barely begun to scratch the surface of attachment, friendship, and play - Why?
ANGER was the only emotion allowed to other species, for a long time, by science; anger was OK,
affection was (and in many cases, still is) not-OK.

thank DoG, there have now been brain-scans of various species, and lo + behold! gee, the same areas of their brains are active under various emotional stim, as are active in humans, under the same circs... duh!
there have been hormonal assays, and the same hormones help women bond to their infants, as are present in a mouse,
a moose, or a mongoose... duh!
i feel very privileged to have lived thru a period where we discovered tool-use in many other species -
and both non-scientists and scientists alike had a hissy-fit over that!

then there have been non-human language discoveries - alarm-calls that name the source of the threat, are the simplest of these.
dolphins and apes and parrots (among others) can grasp grammar, and the importance of object vs subject, or noun order -
fetch the ring, then put the ball into the ring differs from
put the ball into the ring, and bring them back together
or fetch the ball, then put the ring over it... or any other variants.
there were and continue to be, violent verbal disagreements over that.
not Can they do it - that is apparent - but, What does this mean for humans?

then there is the concept of non-human culture -
i was one of the few people i knew, in the 1980s, who referred to animal *cultures* - things that went from generation to generation, and were not instinctual, but learned from adults by infants.
i was so excited when i read a science-journal article about orca, that referred to orca culture that i phoned 4 friends long-distance, just to talk about it, exclaim over it, oh the thrill! i think that was 1984 or -5...
and again, scientists and non-scientists alike were upset...

every time a barrier falls between non-humans + humans, i see a lot of people get very upset -
this idea of commonality with other species is a very, very uncomfortable concept.
i find it simply makes sense - we humans share 65% of the dog genome; we share over 98% of the chimp-genome.
Why should it be so astonishing that species have differences, but they Also have mutual talents, similar
answers to similar problems, similar feelings of joy and hurt and anger or loss?
why would every species be a Back-to-the-Drawing-Board! from the ground up, new design?
what a waste of energy and elegant design...

Japanese scientists look at commonalities across species - Western Europe and the USA prefer impermeable barriers, ~ sigh... ~
*diane fossey* + *jane goodall* are only a few of the braver researchers who helped to deconstruct the walls Western science had built between species. i hope that their legacy is carried forward, and fewer barriers are artificially maintained between our species, and others - humans are special, but not IMO any more wonderful than others.
on Spaceship Earth, i think we need fellow travelers - not only servants, meat animals, immaterial nonentities, and assorted pests.
EVERYthing is *not!* IMO, about us; as a species, i think we need to grow-up, and stop beating our chests and roaring,
I am the best, I was the FIRST!, I am *special*... MY sun, MY world, MY crops, MY needs... My brains!
jeez, kid, get over it - U have some siblings and cousins and distant friends of friends...
be thankful, ya little ingrate!

of course, all the by-the-Book Christians will want to have me stoned, - letting the human side down...
happy to have fellow passengers,
--- terry

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

bump..................

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

bump................

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

bump..............

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007