APBC Highlights Concerns Over Cesar Millan's UK Tour | Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors

APBC Highlights Concerns Over Cesar Millan's UK Tour
Date Released:
25/11/2009

The recently announced UK tour by Cesar Millan brings with it controversy and confusion for concerned pet owners and pet behaviour professionals.

The APBC believes that there is much to thank Cesar for – his programmes have made owners aware that the two alternatives for a badly behaved pet are not just “put up with” or “put to sleep”.

It is Cesar’s dog training methods that divide people and here an understanding of science can separate the wheat from the chaff. Whilst thirty years ago some of Cesar’s methods were considered the best science available, dog training has progressed greatly since then.

Today “dominance” and pack theory have been superseded with family orientated constructs of the ways that dogs relate to us and each other. Even the wolf behaviourists who first suggested the “dominance theory” (from whom the dog trainers took it) have since said it was always a false premise.

However, it would be wrong to suggest that all Cesar does is based on fallacy. Consistency, firm boundaries and increased exercise will help many pet dogs, and we know that punishment can work on some dogs for some people in some circumstances. The art is in knowing where it will and where it won’t. It was through developing techniques for the occasions where it won’t work, that alternatives that will work on all dogs for all people in all circumstances are now widely accepted as the best ways to train and rehabilitate dogs.

Punitive ‘alpha rolls’, lead jerks, jabs and other harsh corrections can subdue a dog – if you are fit, quick, agile, strong, and consistent in applying them. But most pet owners are not. Neither do pet owners relish going head to head with an aggressive dog. Get it wrong and the dog can become more aggressive. Why does Cesar need to state, “Don’t try this at home”? It is because some dogs may react aggressively if they feel threatened or fearful, and when a dog becomes confused and anxious about their interactions with people it can make them more likely to be aggressive in general.

Every professional working with dogs needs to constantly review their methods, and most will use a combination of techniques gleaned from various sources as improved welfare-friendly ones become better known.

APBC members regularly work with dogs that show extreme aggression, helping owners to change their dogs’ behaviour with methods that can be used at home.

If anyone, including Mr Millan, would like to see these techniques in action, we would be more than happy to demonstrate them.

For further details please contact Pippa Hutchison (APBC public relations):
01436 840194 positiveimprint@aol.com


For anyone who would like to learn more about aggression in dogs, the APBC will be holding their 21st Anniversary seminar entitled “Aggression – it’s an emotional thing” on 6th March 2010 at Stoneleigh Park in Warwickshire – see Conferences and Events | Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors for details.

Yay, Hallelujah!

my sole quibble is the phrase,
no-one claims that punishment Does Not Work - of course it does.
the Big Q is, Do we want to use pos-P?, despite its potential for making things worse in the long term.

the Q never has been, Does punishment actually work?
thats a non-starter.

the problem with applied punishment, AKA positive-punishment, are the accompanying risks of unintended side-effects that ride the coat-tails of punishment... such nasties as increased-aggro, phobias, a lower threshold for reactivity, defensive behavior, suspicion, anxiety, and increased stress are among them.

i think we can also agree (unfortunately) that the human-default to PUNISH will have every dog-owner
who reads this phrase thinking, 'some dogs includes MY dog', 'some ppl is ME', and 'some circs include MINE'...
of course, this is natural, as we and our dogs are always the Special Ones, the Special Case, the Exception, LOL...
except that it is not funny. its a worry!



i disagree with this statement -
with the exception of NEGATIVE-punishment, a consequence following an un-desired behavior which entails
taking away something desirable, to discourage the repetition of that unwanted behavior.

outside of genuine crises - the dog is about to attack a person, dog, etc; the dog is a danger Right Now!
to someone or something, etc - there is always an alternative to the use of applied-punishment in training.
crises are not training; crises are accidents!
training is scripted - it has a plan and a goal-behavior.


also, i would say that most, if not ALL that Cesar Does! is based on misapprehensions, misunderstandings, and misapplications;
it is What He SAYS that may be correct, and most of the correct things he says are anything but original; they are antiques,
so old that they once had hair, and are now balding and moth-eaten, LOL.


U still have to pay careful attn to separate wheat + chaff in his statements.
not everything he says is accurate or safely applicable, but more of his verbal is correct than his physical handling, anyway.
so if U are a gambler, listening to Cesar has better odds + less risk than watching and imitating his handling.

cheers,
--- terry

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terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

I dont think he uses dominance in every respect, he will coax the animal and simply not let them win, he seems to use a variety of methods from physical, to food to holistic - even patience in gaining trust...

I understand dominance theory to be based on force - to me this is not his defining method of working but uses a multitude of them. He has paved the way for 'trainers' to become a dog buzzword - largely in promting themseves against him.

I am neither for or against this fella to be honest the jury is still out on him as far as I am concerned, but last night I was watching an episode where the "case" was a severely frightened doberman x? was petrified by EVERYTHING, from cupboard doors being open in the kitchen, the the cats in the home playing, balloons, linolium(sp) and also had a very strange way of dealing with her eating, being petrifried during every meal constantly looking around, and needing comforting between each mouthful, while watching the programm, my heart went out to this beautiful girl, thinking she has no real life, she has shut down from all that would normally give pleasure to a dog, CM was called in, he took her to his place and to be honest I was cringing watching the way he dealt with the situation, placing her on a running machine while she was bombarded with noise/ballooons, CM felt that she was locked in her mind and required to move forward and through her fear? she eventually did walk on the running machine, she did appear to be a little more calm when these items were brought out in front of her, he took her to a grayhound rescue where she ran about with other dogs, , he had her tested for all medicale problems that may be related to her eating habits, he had holistic specialist working on her, and also TT treatments, eventually the girl did appear to be more "normal" and there was a report from her owner 7months later that she is a different dog, being able to cope with the normalities of life that before had her hiding under a table. as I said my stomach was turning watching this treatment, thinking he is doing more harm than good, but seeing that girl at the end playing in the garden, going for walks, passing open cupboards and drawers etc lifted my heart, as it seemed this girl was now begining to enjoy life?

Mo

I am interested in everyones way of training... I will listen watch and then choose what suits me and the circumstances I find myself, in line with the dog I am working with.

As the APBC says - in this very much 'sitting on the fence' press release -

"Every professional working with dogs needs to constantly review their methods, and most will use a combination of techniques gleaned from various sources as improved welfare-friendly ones become better known"

I can certainly see areas, where Cesars theorys and his ideas could be beneficial, but I also see where it could cause problems and it is having that knowledge and being able to call on it for the future that anyone working with dogs will find useful.

I think the main concern is that 'members of the public', who have little or no understanding of dogs, will go off and think that 'all applies to one', which anyone with experience knows it doesn't.

I will be going to the ABPC conference, as I have done for many years. I have also got tickets for Cesar...

Mo I saw that epidsode too and was horrified at his 'flooding' technique - which by all means is very recognised training method (I am not arguing whether it is right or wrong). As you say, it seemed to work, but how many people would be 'brave' enough or stupid enough? to push a dog through to the otherside?

But that is the great thing about watching other people and listening to their ideas, it gives you something to think about and question for the future.

Which is exactly what this programme did for you and me.

Kate

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Just because I can't talk, doesn't mean you can't understand me

I like to take bits from everywhere that suit at the time, I am not set in any school of thought, I think the problem with CM is he is televised full stop, if he ran a school, and worked on one dog at a time and got good results then thats OK but the fact he is on TV and as mentioned all and sundry will try his methods in the most inappropriate situations. a lot of dogs and possibly humans will be damaged in the long run not just because of his techneque but because it is applied in the wrong circumstances, but he is big money and as long as he gets a good audience he will continue to influence the less than educated dog people out there. I was contemplating going to see him when he is over here, but to be honest I have a feeling it will be like watching a trained animal show, with dogs that do not have real issues being brought out for the audience to see his techniques, and the Q & A section I feel will be guided, so that only the Correct Q's are asked? so I am saving my money.



Mo

How can you tell someone that their opinion is wrong? A personal opinion can never be wrong, and just because it doesn't match someone elses doesn't mean one is more right than the other. They are both opinion.
Why is it that whenever a training related thread starts, the same self-proclaimed expert members crop up and try and put down the other members and claim that they are more experienced, better qualified and therefore their opinion is right and should be taken as fact?

It spoils the debate and discussion by making members feel defensive about voicing their opinions and reasoning. Everyones opinion is valid and no opinion is more right than anyone elses.



Personally I don't mind Cesar. I think some of the things he does and debatable whether they work or not, and other things he does seem to really help the dogs.
You can't blanket criticise his ways of working as rubbish if he gets results with some dogs.
The press release doesn't condemn his methods or himself, so why do members on here know better than the official Association?

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TV for sale. Volume control faulty. Only £50. You can't turn it down.

Yes you are right. My bad. James is entitled to his opinion just as much as we are entitled to agree or disagree with it.

As for Patch well they are entitled to their opinion too, as are we all.

thats not very nice to single out certain people which arent even involved in this thread and there u go about opinions but in the matter of fact u do the same by singling out a person which voiced an opinion in other threads in the past and shoot her down before she even got to say anything on here if she even intends to ... we dont know...

dont preach something u cant live up to urself i would say