re post #2- sketch


hey, sketch! :--)

yes, that exercise is quite famous, and i love it - they call it Dog Zen, learning to get the desired object by NOT taking it, LOL.

even quite-young pups can learn it, and it is one of the exercises in the Levels Training FREE Book on the dragonflyllama website... Levels Training is terrific, there is proofing built-into every phase of the learning process, so there are no holes in the training, the dog never has the chance to repeat an incorrect understanding of the cue + behavior pair.
U find any boo-boos almost immediately, and the dog never gets to rehearse a 'wrong answer' for any length of time,
U find it, fix Ur training mistake, and go on to the next step!
very very cool - and FUN training! for both dogs + humans.

i highly recommend it - they have a list on Yahoo Groups (trainingLevels),
an on-line log for training accomplishments, tracking progress, sharing pix, etc
(honker software), AND a database on the yahoo-Groups list for locating folks in Ur home-area who are doing Levels training, for getting together to train or socialize.

there are VIDEOS on U-Tube of Levels Training - many are fun, some are hysterically funny (like the recent world-wide team challenge event, LOL), most are really good examples of how to train with pos-R.
cheers,
--- terry

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terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Hi Terry.
I dont know what its call, but its just easier to get the dogs to choose what to do, and i feel it gives more chance of success, i like to set them up to win and not fail.
My 1st GSD is kinda willfull, and will try and find a loophole in everything, very clever, so using these methods i dont have to fight with them physically, i am one step ahead of them mentally, and enjoy training them.
Its works with both GSD'S and my Border collie he he
xx

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Sarah xxx

Your dog is still a puppy, it will improve as she gets older. You are doing your basic leave training so that is a good start. They are quick at that age. Candy is the same age and this morning she was trying to pull the towel down off the hanger in the kitchen and it was firmly anchored so she wasnt winning. So quick as a flash she grabbed a tea towel and ran off with it. I dont suppose she will still be doing that in a years time.

There are a couple of mean tricks you can try. Leave a plate hanging around with some food coated in mustard - that might make her think. Another one, that I probably wouldnt recommend with a small dog actually, is to put some kind of banger from a joke shop on the counter or sofa or whatever so that when they put their paws up they set it off. Trouble is it could scare the dog a lot so not a good idea for a small young dog but can be effective with collies or springers etc that are putting feet up on work surfaces to steal food.
The best way though is what the majority of dog owners do and that is never ever to leave unattended food within reach of the dog. And that includes snacking children.

Hi hun, I know how you feel I have a puppy AND a young child too

My simple solution is this . . a baby gate! It's a godsend when there's food about! When I'm cooking they get shut in the living room so they cannot steal, and when we are eating they get shut on the other side in the kitchen.

My problem was that they were still begging by the gate, which is obviously very irresistable to a six year old, who started feeding him thru it so now I have trained the "bed" command. It took a few dinners getting cold on my behalf but now it means a peaceful dinner and NO stealing, I did this by putting them in their respective beds, telling them "bed", and EVERYTIME i mean EVERY single time they got out, i got up and put them back in only saying "bed", no eye contact or fuss, just "bed", they soon realised that that is where they were to stay until dinner/lunch had finished, and when they did they got a treat (just one mind)

You do need to manage as well as train as a dog is an oppurtunist, no matter how well trained they are they CAN and will be tempted TOO much to resist by removing oppurtunities where you can AND using positive reinforcement, when the time comes when they are temptation takes over, you will be able to deal with it swiftly and efficiantly

Good luck, and congrats on the impending arrival

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re post #12 - sarah


hey, sarah! :--)

yes, setting the dog up to succeed is So Much better for both parties, LOL -
the dog can learn nearly error-free, the human(s) are a lot less likely to spend all their time saying, no, no No,
No!, NO!, No, dammit!, LOL, and the dog actually learns what behaviors we would like to get / see -

a big plus, there, not much point in wasting time teaching the dog what i do Not Want, LOL.

i also agree that smart dogs need trainers who out-think them - not out-muscle them.
brains are something we all claim to want in our dogs... but then when we get a real Mensa-candidate, we spend all our time b*tching + moaning about how frustrating this #$@&! dog is, LOL.
dog-brains vs human-brawn is always a poor contest; the human just gets cranky + frustrated with the dog. MUCH better, imo, to co-opt those k9-brains and start the dog thinking, and really work that brain-muscle.

humans always == think == that they want a smart dog...
if truth be told, what Pet-Owners want in a dog is a bit stoopid, sweet and willing, without too much need for major exercise,
LOL... a sofa-slug, layabout dog who likes to WALK, not gallop, and adores lying nearby while U watch telly.

cheers,
--- terry

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

ha ha Terry mine are all energetic, have to be walked alot and trained, we train twice a day it keeps them fit mentally and physically.
Kane and Dalton are big lads, 47kg and 39kg so to try and make them do something if they dont want to is near impossible, it just wont happen. so using the zen methods they think and act accordingly for me.
Like right now they are like two book ends fast asleep because they are happy.
I dont get much trouble with them, we have had the odd issue here and there, but we work through them. Long gone are the days i come home and cry because one of them has been a hooligan.
Now they mostly know whats asked of them, and a quick "ah ah" they usually change there minds and see it my way.
But i guess i like training them too, it makes me tick, so inturn makes them tick too.
xx

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Sarah xxx

Hi. Sorry, I haven't been on for a few days. Thank you all for your advice.

We have stairgates up around the house anyway (to stop Reece going places he shouldn't!), but because of the way our house is there is no way to seperate the eating area from the rest of the house, however, we do use the bed comand, and she knows what it means and will stay there untill she is called out by me. The problem is more with snacks, and things like biscuits.

I have been working with her all weekend though, and she will now leave food that is on the floor with me only telling her once and she has stopped running off with Reece's toys so much as I don't chase after her any more, I start to play with one of hers instead. She will still try to take food from Reece's hand, but I have been watching her more, so she doesn't get so much chance to do it. I think that will take longer as I've got to train Reece up too! lol

I can't believe how quickly she has picked it all up. Thank you for helping me

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good on ya! ;-) > click! <

progress is a wonderful thing -
dogs are smart, we just need to set some management up that prevents the wrong thing, and encourages the right action.

any yup, i agree - kids are tougher! LOL - keep working on that.
cheers,
--- terry

__________________
terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
*wolves R wolves, dogs R dogs, + primates R us.*
tmp, sept-2007

Good on you, keep it up, keep us posted too
xx

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Sarah xxx